Autism & Job Corps, with Megan MacKay | EDB 335

Autism self-advocate and therapist Megan MacKay discusses her role with Job Corps, and how it can help the neurodivergent population.

Megan MacKay works as an addiction and trauma psychotherapist. She is a CSAT, LCPC and LPC in the states of Arizona and Montana. Megan is also a Clinical Mental Health Consultant at Trapper Creek Job Corps, and a Board Member for Returning Youth Initiative. She also is a host and Board member for 101.5 KFGM, Missoula Community Radio. 

For more about Megan’s work, visit:

https://www.innerstatehealingandrecovery.com/

https://bloggingforrecovery.wordpress.com/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganmackayaz/ 

Listen to 101.5 KFGM at https://www.1015kfgm.org/

FULL TRANSCRIPTION

DR HACKIE REITMAN (HR): 

Hi, I am Dr Hackie Reitman, welcome to another episode of Exploring Different Brains. And today we have coming to us all the way from Montana, Megan MacKay, where it’s colder out there. And Megan is a terrific therapist and self advocate, and is going to tell us all about what she does. Megan, welcome to different brains.

MEGAN MacKAY (MM):  

Hey. Thank you so much. It’s an honor to be here. 

HR:  

Let’s start off by asking you what your connection to neurodiversity is and what led you to become a therapist. 

MM:  

Very good question and a very potentially long story. So for a recap, as a personal journey through a major life change within my 30s, I was very scientifically based person. My bachelor’s is in chemistry. I did research for quite a number of years, and then I had a major life event occur where I developed a passion for helping people within trauma and addictions in that world, and wanted to give back to people who gave back to me, in a sense, and I found that helping People was something I was passionate about through counseling, and it’s a whole world involving you don’t do things for people. You empower people to do things for themselves and educate them and kind of walk along their path with them while they go through things. So that’s how I got into the Counseling and Psychology. I chose counseling because it was more holistic, and I had been practicing the medical model I was in pharmacy school for a couple of years, and I found it didn’t really answer a lot of individuals ailments when it comes came to mental or physical health, because you look at broken parts of the body, and not the whole existence of a human being. So fast forward, I’ve always been autistic. I’ve always had these things about these challenges that I’ve had overcome at one point, like growing up, I was very non verbal, heavily bullied in school, the social key stuff, like all those, always there, always felt different. Had a really hard time interacting with people. Was in a constant survival state, like with shut down or over or dysregulated, and find out I was actually autistic, so I started educating myself and others in that world, essentially and kind of as I had found, making it okay for them to be who they are, and Also want to strive to do better.

HR:  

Okay, to be who you are. That’s great. Um, now you’re also concerned with getting people independent, getting them jobs, and talk a little about your work with the Job Corps.

MM:  

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I work on probably one of the most beautiful campuses here in Montana. We’re out in Darby. It’s south of Darby, a good 15-20 minutes past a lot of farms and kind of up in the back hills or mountains, I would say there’s a lot of jagged cliffs around here, where students come to learn various trades. We have 11 trades on campus, including fire, electrical work, a lot of there’s three different union trades there. There’s facilities, maintenance, natural resources, and just a whole lot of opportunities for individuals who prefer to enter into this type of work rather than go through your typical academia. Um, my job is to be the mental health counselor here on staff come to find out there’s a good population that have these individuals have official autism diagnoses.

HR:  

What could other employers learn from how the Job Corps operates?

MM:  

Accommodations and how easy but how important, and how life changing that can be for a person understanding that it’s not an inability, it is an ability that needs more support. It’s just development in a different way for individuals who have different learning styles or processing methods and speeds, whatever that might be, or education. The structure here it provides them a whole lot of elements that aren’t necessarily found in your typical academic setting. Now that, yes, there’s structure in the academic setting, but here it is rigorously structured. They live on campus, and they’re housed in dorms, and so they are, in a sense, forced to, but not directly forced to socialize and interact with people. And I work with them to help improve those social skills and those types of interactions and kind of bridge the gap between other students and them, or between staff and them. There’s a lot of hands on work, and so learning how that autistic individual functions is incredibly important, like the famous saying goes, if you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism. So you have to understand what it is that they do with like, for me, I can’t do fluorescent lights. Like, if you see my office, you know it’s back lit. And whenever I get into bright fluorescent room, my brain just like, shuts off. It’s like looking at those HIDheadlights, and you just like, stop, and are stumped for a moment. And so this looks differently for different individuals with neurodiversity. So is it sound? If that person hears like a buzzing in the background, is that all they can focus on, you know, how can you work with them to get through that and whatnot? So it’s kind of a perfect environment for people who do have offices. I mean, there’s like nature is right out of our as soon as we walk outside. So the regulation is the important piece, along with the education that I provide and like, look how simple it is. We can go for a walk. We can look at the trees and the cliffs and maintain a sense of balance and regulation.

HR:  

So other employers could learn how the Job Corps supports individuals, because your attitude is, let’s give people the help they need to succeed in what they want to accomplish and do, as opposed to, you can’t do this because of X, Y or Z.

MM:  

Basically, don’t limit people. Look past the surface. Don’t don’t limit people because they’re not there just yet, because individuals with neurodivergency will be the most loyal and dedicated and thorough employees, they may just not have adequate social skills to get there, and might need to be taught for example or better communication. So the willingness to work with somebody like that and through that, is what I’m basically advocating for.

HR:  

And what would you say to someone that is considering Job Corps, but isn’t sure if it’s for them?

MM:  

What’s their motivation? And how willing are you to dive in and be uncomfortable? A lot of things that I find with those who don’t understand I neurodivergency Well, is, yes, there are limiting factors. There’s stuff that we, you know, struggle with, like the sensory stuff or the social stuff, and we create ways to cope with these things ourselves. But it’s not always good. And look at the. Statistics of people with addiction in autism or neurodivergency, it’s pretty high. It’s like 20% or maladaptive stimming behaviors, things that aren’t healthy. So pushing yourself is not a bad thing. Pushing yourself into shutdown, fight or flight is a bad thing, but challenging yourself to develop these skills and grow is a good thing, and that’s what this campus. That’s what Job Corps does for these individuals in a supportive and healthy environment.

HR:  

How would you like to see Autism Awareness improve?

MM:  

Education and the employability sector, because there are a lot of so many college educated individuals who face these challenges, who is just mild accommodations would excel within the workplace. Look at the interview process and how that just bars people out the gate from, you know, employability in itself. What happens when they ask you a question. We’re going to be completely honest, 100 like, brutally honest, and say what we’re thinking and what’s on our minds. That’s not always what people are looking for we might, you know, head down the wrong path, and that could be a limiting factor.

HR:  

Understood. Tell us about your show, Grizzly talk.

MM:  

I have retired that since due to time limitations and wanting to maintain balance with my family and work, but I had taken about a year and gone through a good series of like, I think, seven interviews with different professionals, ranging from fellow therapists and counselors to lawyers and local theater director talking about how all of these individuals interacted and improve the community, somehow improving mental health through their services and work. So for example, I did a show with a women’s business center director who had they helped provide small business support for women, specifically to help them exceed and empower themselves to be independent and get through all of the obstacles that it takes in order to start and build up a business, including all the legal and financial stuff. How does that help mental health? You know, it gives somebody a life that they’ve always wanted. So it was a, for me, a growth opportunity, because I used to hate talking. I was not a interview person. I would, you know, like shake and melt down and do all the stuttering and just freeze, and I could not talk in front of people. And so over the years, I’ve kind of done a sequential self challenge to get to the point where I was able just to ramble off in front of a screen or in front of an audience. And by doing that, you know, I took on various speaking engagements all the way up to the show thing, and it just kind of helped me to enhance that ability to communicate and to do so in front of big crowds in the social context.

HR:  

Megan, how can people learn more about you?

MM:  

I have a business here in Montana. So all of my information is listed online. It’s an office down in Hamilton, but I am employed full time through the government with the Job Corps, and so I really don’t do that a whole bunch of a very small caseload of complex trauma individuals and but I do run a weekly radio show on our community station where I talk about mental health stuff, everything, ranging from personality disorders to trauma and addictions, um, and so that’s on 101, 5k, F, G, M here in Missoula. Um, I’m on the board there too, but I also run a blog. I haven’t written for that for a little bit because I’ve been busy with other endeavors, but I have a lot of information on there to where I kind of tie in a little bit of personal stories in with mental health topics like boundaries and familial issues and relationships. Ships, attachment styles, stuff like that. So that’s BloggingForRecovery.com. I’m starting to get that up and running again. My email is on my website, InnerstateHealingAndRecovery.com.

HR:  

I tell you, this has been very educational Megan, and very, very helpful. It’s been a pleasure to have you, Megan, and I hope you’ll join us again soon. Megan MacKay, thank you very much for being here with us at Different Brains. 

MM:

Thank you for the opportunity.