Remembering Dr. Hackie Reitman | Spectrumly Speaking ep. 162

In this episode, hosts Haley Moss and Dr. Lori Butts discuss the loss of Different Brains founder Dr. Harold “Hackie” Reitman, and explore the impact he had on their lives and the neurodiversity community. 

Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.

Have a question or story for us? E-mail us at SpectrumlySpeaking@gmail.com

HM:  

Hello and welcome to Spectrumly speaking, I’m Haley Moss, an author, attorney, artist and advocate. It’s been a while since we’ve been on the Spectrumly stage, but I do promise things are okay, and because I am being joined by my lovely co host, the one, the only you all know her. You all love her…

LB:  

I am Dr Lori butts. I’m a psychologist and an attorney. 

HM:  

Today’s episode is a little bit more serious and somber than most of you might be used to. We are sharing about a huge loss for the different brains family with our President, our founder and our friend, Dr Hackie Reitman, as some of you, or perhaps none of you, or all of you may know, Dr Reitman was our founder. He is the reason that we have this platform here at Spectrumly Speaking, and he recently passed away, so it is something that we thought was best was to do an episode honoring Dr Reitmans legacy and all that he has done, that we both know him personally, and we are still just grateful and want to continue the work of different brains and What different brain stands for. So I’m not really sure the best way to have these discussions, because they’re hard losing someone you’ve worked with that you respect, that you admire, that you care about, that stuff is not easy for anyone, whether you’re neurotypical or neurodivergent. So we thought this would be a good discussion to have, and possibly some of the best things we can do is honor the memory and cherish what we’ve built and the memories that we do have. And I kind of want to turn to Dr butts, so I know Dr Reitman did bring us together here, and I think that’s super awesome. And how did you first meet Hackie? 

LB:  

Actually, I met Hackie 25 years ago, at least, maybe more so. Hackie was really good friends with my mentor, Dr John Spencer, and when I joined the practice clinical and Forensic Institute that I work at, Dr Spencer. John Spencer introduced me to Hackie and as his friend, and we became friends then, but then, unfortunately, Dr Spencer suddenly passed away, and that that was kind of the, the catalyst to hacking, my closer relationship, our loss of John Spencer really, really brought he and I together, and I was as I was thinking about this episode today. It’s Hakeem sorry, hecky. Taught me a lot about how to mourn and grieve and lose a best friend, and so hi keys in my mind about how to handle losing him, though it’s it’s been a an ironic kind of, kind of storyline, I guess we want to say.

HM:  

So appreciate you sharing that, and I think that’s really interesting. When you mentioned that he helped you navigate loss, and now you’re kind of reflecting back, and now it’s like, oh my gosh. Now, now what? And you’re the one who taught me how to navigate this in the first place. And now, what do I do without you? Almost with that, right?

LB:  

That’s exactly it. 

HM:  

Really a lot to process. 

LB:  

I think, yeah, it is, it is, and it and I guess it just goes to show you, you don’t you know you’re learning life lessons as life comes at you, and you don’t know when they’re going to be picked up and when you’re going to need them, and and then then life happens and you need them, and you and you lean on them. That’s for sure.

HM:  

For sure. And I think a lot of us, I know, even me, like when I get to hear you talk about it, it’s really interesting as well, because there’s this kind of belief that we look at psychologists, especially, is that you guys know how to handle things, help other people handle their big feelings, right? I have been through many episodes of Spectrumly over the years where I felt like I was in a therapy session and learned something, yeah, me too. Being on the other side of hearing you vulnerable is a different experience for me too, and it really just shows how human we all are at the end of the day, which I know feels very trite to say. Right? It makes sense in my brain.

LB:  

Yeah, I don’t think it’s trite. I you know, I mean, you know, a lot of trite things are truisms, right? I mean, that’s why that’s, that’s why they’re, they’re considered trite, right? It’s like those things that all of us experience, and everyone will experience, there’s like a this commonality of humanity, right?

HM:  

Yeah, and every time things like these happen, you always are thinking, oh my gosh, I wish I had responded to that last email, or that I’ve done something, because I know so many times I have received emails or correspondence, and I just don’t always get around to it. You never really know. Like, there’s something that’s really eerie about that to me. Yeah, there are times that I have received emails from Hackie, and I’m just not the best at always responding to things. Now I’m like, Whoa. I can’t just, like, say I’m so sorry. My brain mentally hit send, but my body did not right, like there’s just something really spooky about that in my brain. I first met Hackie when my story was gaining traction in early 2019, he wanted me to be on the show, and he wanted me to meet and do an interview with the past host of this podcast, and I remember doing that interview with Becca Laurie, was one of the hosts, and we did it. And I was at my day job at the time, so I was at the office where I was working, and I was an attorney, and I remember closing my door and doing an interview, and I believe at the time, we were recording over Skype, which sounds so dated, and and then all of a sudden, before I knew it, I was never able to quite leave the different brains family. I was on the board for a short while, and then you and I were thrown together here, and have had quite the ride. I’ll never forget had someone like Hackie not connected us.

LB:  

I Well, that’s, that’s what Hackie did. He was a connector. And on that, I won’t forget when Hackie first told me about you, how excited and enthusiastic he was about meeting you, and how he he just, he just was beaming about meeting you and how impressive you were and how smart you were and how wonderful you were. So I’ll never forget that his he just he adored you and admired you so much.

HM:  

I just hope I live up to the hype.

LB:  

Of course, you do. 

HM:  

You know, whenever people speak really highly of you, you’re always scared that, like, you’re just gonna be a disappointment in some way, shape or form. Yeah,

LB:  

I do. 

HM:  

Whenever someone’s like, oh, that’s the greatest person in the world, and then they’re not, you’re like, oh my god, I totally missed out. Or like, it’s a really weird feeling. So I always hope that I live up to the hype, and I’m glad that Hackie did bring us together and that we ended up becoming friends too. Like, I think there’s something powerful in those types of stories.

LB:  

Yeah, he, he. I always called him Forrest Gump, because I felt like he knew everybody, and he could connect everybody,

HM:  

And he did everything too.

LB:  

Yeah. I had been re watching some of his interviews, and one of the interviews he did with me, he said, I’m not going to stop different brains until the president United States is wearing a t shirt that says my brain is different. I was like, you know, so they know, it’s such great passion and enthusiasm and and always, you know, using his platform, his connections, his friends, whoever would listen to to talk about different brains, not as an organization, but more as a concept about acceptance and caring for other people and and accepting other people And that and accepting and loving our differences and and embracing differences, and that was one of the biggest gifts to so many people.

HM:  

Yes. And I think what that also makes me think of is, how do we keep this going? So, you know, no one really knows kind of like, what happens to us after we’re no longer here, and I know everybody’s spiritual beliefs are one thing or another, but sometimes the best thing we could do, in that I’ve learned over the years, is to really just do something that you know, that they would want and they would be proud that was still going on, because I think we’re all here for just a certain amount of time, not to be super existential and we all want. To be remembered for something, or the things that we’ve done, or the people that we’ve loved. And I think right now kind of where I’m at is, how do we keep that work going? So he eventually gets to have that wish of seeing a my brain is different t shirt on the United States or some other really important person.

LB:  

I think that’s really important, because that’s, that’s, I agree with you, that’s how you honor someone’s legacy, is by trying to carry on in the best and what they would want, and doing things in their honor, and things that they were passionate about, they loved.

HM:  

And I know he was passionate about everything that different brains did. And I always admired his passion for the interns, because often he would bring on young neurodivergent people to work here, and they would help us with the show. They would do all sorts of amazing stuff. And I love that those relationships were happening and those opportunities were there. Had they been there? I younger person, I might have done the same thing and taken advantage of those opportunities. 

LB:  

I hope people do, because they’re amazing opportunities. And I mean, again, in every every time you had a conversation with him, he would be bragging on a different intern and what they were accomplishing, and and I always told him, he was such a, you know, his impact was so tangible in people’s lives, and it was so such a wonderful, beautiful thing to be able to see somebody grow and change and and obtain goals that they never thought, that they could imagine gaining and and every day he made that he facilitated that to happen with people.

HM:  

That’s awesome still like I still am in awe of that, and want to do more of that. I want to be able to help more people. And just having that selfless giving spirit is something that when folks do have it, like Hackie, I just admire it so much. You’re like, I want to do that.

LB:  

Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s the one of the most beautiful qualities a human could have, right wanting to make the world a better place, and wanting to help others, and giving of yourself to do that. That’s just, it doesn’t get more more beautiful and more more giving and loving than that. 

HM:  

Yes, and I know for some of our listeners, they’re probably thinking, Well, you guys haven’t really been around very much, and perhaps part of what we can do to do better is be more present, to commit back to this. Because, of course, life gets in the way, and we all know life happens to so many of us, and then scheduling and putting things out goes to the wayside, and there’s a lot going on at any given moment. So that’s something that I’m thinking about, is, let’s try our best to do the thing. Yep, do something for another person, if you can.

LB:  

Exactly, exactly and even just just a small gesture, it doesn’t have to be anything huge. You don’t have to create an organization. Just have to be kind and and ask somebody this is, you know, one thing that Hackie always said when we would talk, is there something I can do for you? And most times I would say no, but, but he meant it, right? He meant that he if there was something that I needed, he would and he could do it, he would do it without question. So that’s, I mean, we don’t have a lot of people in our lives that we know we can count on, and so if you can, whoever’s listening can be present for someone in their life once a day or once a week. That’s so amazing.

HM:  

Or even the big moments. Because sometimes I’ve learned it’s not right present in the everyday, but sometimes when things are really tough or something just doesn’t feel right, that somebody is there is huge. It’s who shows up in the right? But it’s really easy to be there when things are great. You know?

LB:  

Yes, it’s about showing up.

HM:  

And how you show up and stuff. When they go and gets tough, the tough get going. Yep, yep. Like, I love when people show up when you least expect it. You know, just make, makes me emotional. 

LB:  

Yeah, me too. And hacky showed up. And he always did, always showed up for me, that’s for sure. I can say that from my own life experience, always without hesitation, he showed up.

HM:  

So we need to do better at showing up too,

LB:  

Absolutely. 

HM:  

And I think that’s something we can inspire our listeners to do too, is to really just show up for the people in your lives. And it’s not always easy. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it’s not. Because I think we always think like, Oh, you have to be really, really involved, or have a ton of time.

LB:  

At this point, all it takes is a text message, like, yeah. It really, it really, that’s all it takes. Yeah, it doesn’t even need. It need it need to be a phone call. It’s just a check in. 

HM:  

Sometimes I all I will do, if I can, and I don’t have the words, is just send a text that says, thinking of you…

LB:  

Yep, me too. That’s the best just thinking of you. That’s all. You don’t even have to respond when I send in. I just want, want the other person to know that they’re on my mind and

HM:  

Exactly, and that’s a feeling of knowing that somebody out there is thinking of you and cares about you.

LB:  

It’s an amazing feeling.

HM:  

It’s one of the things that makes being human so special. So let’s keep doing that.

LB:  

Yes, absolutely. Commitment, all of us. 

HM:  

I think that’s a good place for us to have this conversation, because I know that otherwise, this could be an extremely dark episode. And I know that’s really want. I know for those of you who’ve been here for a long time, we always try to have an upbeat, right feeling, and even try to navigate tough topics with a little bit of a smile, a little bit of joy whenever we can. And I know that that’s what Different Brains has always been, is that celebration. So I hope we celebrate by being present, by being there for each other and doing something for others.

LB:  

And that’s in complete alignment with hacky, right? He’s always, always, always pushed the organization and everything on the organization to have the positive spin, to find the positive and what’s going on, and to promote positivity. And that’s completely in his honor.

HM:  

The best thing that we can do then.

LB:  

Yep. 

HM:  

Let’s do that. And I think that’s a great place for us to send you all out into the world to do those things. And since we are, after all, talking about Different Brains, which is Hackie’s brain child, we want you to check out differentbrains.org and check out their Twitter and Instagram at DiffBrains, and don’t forget to look for them on Facebook. I know there are many different ways that you can support an organization, like Different Brains, but sometimes just your Likes on social media and you, your commitment in following us is more than enough, but if you’re also interested in us, which feels really odd to talk about, after making about Hackie And the organization, you can say hello to me haleymoss.com or on whatever social media makes you happy. And I’m looking forward to saying hello and seeing what you’re doing to make the world a better place.

LB:  

I can be found cfiexperts.com Please be sure to subscribe and rate us on Apple podcasts or your podcast Apple choice, and don’t hesitate to send questions to spectrumlyspeaking@gmail.com Let’s keep the conversation going.