Denise D. Resnik shares how First Place AZ created a new paradigm for IDD independent living.
About our guest: Denise is the founder and president/CEO of First Place AZ (established in 2012), co-founder of Southwest Autism Research & Resource Center (SARRC, established in 1997), and founder and CEO of DRA Collective, a marketing/communications firm (established in 1986) that serves clients in a variety of fields, including real estate, economic development, healthcare, education and hospitality.
Denise serves as a member of Arizona State University Foundation Board and Watts College Dean’s Council, the Creighton University Presidential Health Sciences Phoenix Advisory Board and The Precisionists, Inc. Advisory Board. Former leadership positions include the Autism Society Marketing Task Force, Autism Speaks Housing Committee, Advancing Futures for Adults with Autism Leadership Council, National Association of Residential Providers for Adults with Autism and the National Autism Transition Research Network Advisory Panel. She has also served as a federally appointed member of the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee of the National Institutes of Health.
Denise has received numerous local and national honors for her civic contributions and business accomplishments. She graduated cum laude from ASU, where she received a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration. Her adult son Matt, who has autism, and others with disabilities inspire her work.
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For more about host Bea Moise, visit: beatricemoise.com
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Note: the following transcription was automatically generated. Some imperfections may exist.
BEA MOISE (BM):
Hello, and welcome to Exploring Different Brains. I am Bea Moise, and I’ll be your host today. I am so excited to welcome Denise Resnick as my guest. Denise does so much for the neurodivergent community, including being the founder and president of First Place Arizona, which she is definitely going to tell us more about, and I’m excited to hear more. So, welcome, Denise. Would you like to please reintroduce yourself to our audience?
DENISE D. RESNIK (DR):
Absolutely. Well, first and foremost, I’m the mother of two remarkable children. Our daughter, Allie, is just 18 months older than our son, Matt, and he is autistic. Matt is a gifted, wonderful, loving young man who, when he was diagnosed 32 years ago, was told actually we were told, as his parents, to love, accept, and plan to institutionalize him, and that was wholly unacceptable to us. We also thought about how we could respond to that looming question of who’s going to care for him when we’re no longer able to do so, and we didn’t want our daughter Ally to have to replace us as his parents, and we have been working ever since to build more opportunities for people with autism and neurodiversities to find their place in the world, and that means homes, that’s education and training, that’s jobs, that’s health, and that’s a supportive community, and at the end of the day, who’s going to care about Matt and others we love? It’s going to be community, and, and when I try to explain first place, I have to explain it with dimensions, because we don’t just live in four walls, we live in community, and that is filled with all the above, and I believe, but you, you know that also, as a mom, all the things we worry about as moms, as dads, as you know, family members, and as people who care, so that’s why I am so excited to be back with you at Different Brains, having grown up with this organization through the years and being able to dream bigger and envision the world we want, and then how we align our resources and ourselves to go after it.
BM:
I love two things you just said, because I love everything you just said, but basic, but two of them would hit me very in a strong way, and it was a very powerful message, and the first one being I want my child to have an independent life, basically, like I want my child to have as normal of a human experience as possible, as we have decided in this society, which is independence, and just being able to live on your own and do things on your own, and the second thing you said, also having two children, you know, my son’s on the spectrum, and then I have a daughter, the I don’t want to leave a particular parenting burden on a sibling, and that also hits home because as a parent you do start to look at that second child as well, what does this look like, right? Like, am I preparing you for a caregiver role you did not sign up for, right? Like, we as parents signed up for this caregiver role, but you know, how do we ease that burden or not even pass it on, right, of caring for something you genuinely did not sign up for? You just got birthed into. So I love that. It sounds to me that was a mission for First Place Arizona, like that sound to me, that you know that’s where it came from. That was the intention of it. So, is what would this be an inspiration for you? Like, is that what inspired you to really kind of feel this along the way to make this happen?
DR:
It did. And you know, none of us truly live independently. I don’t know about you, but there are certain things I’m not so good at. And fortunately, my husband of 42 years is better at or we do have divide and conquer responsibilities and and so when we think about living independently there there’s a lot of interdependence.
BM:
That is correct.
DR:
And what is it that we do that can allow us to have the best lives possible and to provide that for what we did sign up for as parents, and that is to love our children and to help them be the very best they can be, and to be happy, and to be healthy, and to flourish, whatever that means, and it doesn’t mean the same thing for everybody, so there’s no one that’s fit, there’s no. One size fits all approach to housing or to jobs or any of it, that’s that’s life, and we all live in different places, and and yes, our siblings, our other children, their lives have largely been defined also by having a sibling who has autism, and and that can also be a very positive ingredient and dimension in their lives, it can also be a burden, and that’s not something that we wanted for our daughter, who actually is also the mother of two, and we have a four and seven year old, we have grandchildren four and seven, and they’re lovely, and they love Uncle Matt, and they also are understanding what it means to be neurodivergent, and that is important for all generations to understand what we can do to support others based on where they need help and also where we’re strong, and I, I love this definition about about supportive community, about the people in our lives we do not pay to care about us. Think about the people in our lives who would better understand what autism is, what it isn’t. Maybe I need to give someone the benefit of the doubt or kindness, leading with kindness, that could no matter what ism it is, you know, we need more kindness in the world, and, and I do believe that’s what we’re also demonstrating here through First Place, and our charitable nonprofit, which is a residential and community developer, we are all about becoming that industry leader for housing, health, employment, and education, and doing that through model properties, through research, and it’s one thing to be a beautiful property, but, but are we really getting the outcomes, and also through policy,and you need all of it to create the kind of crosswalks we’re talking about, of how do we, how do we do something that hasn’t been done before, because we wanted to get better results here at first place, so we didn’t want to create the same housing options that already had existed that had a hard time making ends meet and some going under and and also there are lots of challenges with some of the limitations on those housing options and they certainly weren’t going to accommodate for the, you know, 700% increase in the rate of autism since the early 2000s and so what is it that we can do to, to, to create truly a marketplace of options, and that’s what we’re doing here at First Place. We’re aiming for creating a marketplace, just like senior housing did, just like student health did, so that people have more choices, because you know we don’t know what our kids will need forever, and they, they need to be able to choose in communities whether they’re local, suburban, urban, rural, but you know, not 1000s of miles away.
BM:
Yeah, options, you, we want to, we want to make sure that they have options that exist for all the other, you know, situations that exist that we have thought about and pre-plan for, where you know, children like ours. It’s sometimes I do feel like they’re an afterthought, right? Like, sometimes I feel like, oh, now let now we have to think about, you know, neurodivergent children, and this is how we’re going to throw it together and give it back to you. So I do love that there’s a lot of, for you know, there’s a lot of love that goes into first place, obviously, because you understand it, right? There’s, you understand it, so you’re going to come from it at a completely different angle. I would love to hear about what is a day like. What is.. what is.. you know, I wake up at eight, I go to bed at nine. Obviously, I have young kids, so that’s what time is in my head. But you know, so can you walk us through what a life in a daily routine looks like as a four resident? What does that look like?
DR:
So we have the capacity here at First Place Phoenix, which is our flagship property and our R and D site of about 67 residents, they have autism, Down syndrome, other intellectual and developmental disabilities, and other, you know, interests. It is an urban property located in what PBS Newshour acknowledges is the most autism-friendly city in the world, and that is been intention. General, so here at first place, as I was running upstairs to get on this podcast, I ran into some of our Transition Academy students, and we do have a Transition Academy program. It’s a two-year more intensive program, residential, where they’re living in their apartments, also known as their independent living classrooms, and they were off to classes at Gateway Community College, where our courses are being taught, and that’s building community within a community, so there are courses, there are instructors, but they are not only learning there on campus, but there’s that reciprocity of learning of how they’re navigating a campus, how they’re benefiting from the cafeteria or student services or working on site, and so we have to build community within community, so that we’re not doing it all ourselves, so some of our residents are off to classes. Most of our residents are off to jobs and volunteer work. That is actually the number one reason why people move to first place. They’re looking for friends, they’re looking for jobs, and they’re looking to learn how to live more independently. Now, in that Transition Academy, we’ve been running that for 10 years. We just completed a longitudinal study where our graduates are five and a half times more likely to live independently than similarly situated peers, and that data point and the other data points that we’re capturing here at First Place are really important, so that we better understand what’s working for whom, and also what needs to work better, and then for the other residents who are again ranging in age from 20 to 50 something, they have choices in terms of where they’re spending their time. Our son Matt lives here at First Place, and he was off to his vocational program today. And yesterday he was volunteering at a local museum called the Herd Museum, which is a Native American museum, and he volunteers in their library. And tomorrow he’ll be working out, and and we have a lot of community life activities here last year. We hosted more than 1500 here at the property and in the community, so that people could also experience, have different experiences, but also find their friends, you know, what connects them based on those shared interests. And then you, you know, you build that memory, that collective memory and that builds community, and, and so, so there’s not a typical day for a typical resident, but I think what, what you would find here is that people have choices, and they’re choosing to work, they’re choosing their health, because that’s also pre-programmed here at First Place, are choosing to have fun tonight. There’s a Mario Kart tournament, and, and so you know, like, if you’re not creating those play dates, be, and I’m not either, who’s going to do that, right? Really important that here at First Place, that community life is it looms large and and then so do the skills for how do you invite someone over to your apartment and create your own play date?
BM:
So it sounds like to me a data, a daily routine is personalized. Basically it is up to the individual how that day routine would look like, obviously, based on level of function, what they can do, what they want to do, what they desire to do. So it seems like the day routine is, you know, I wake up and I’m going to create the day that I want, and if the day is I’m going to do Mario Kart in the evening, that’s my day. If the day is I’m going to practice my interviewing skill, that’s my day. If the day is I just socialize and hang out with my buds and just hang out with some friends, that’s my day. So to me it sounds like a, a day routine is so personal because it’s based on the individual need, not necessarily this, you’re doing this today, right? That’s what it feels like to me.
DR:
Absolutely, now the the you nailed it. That’s exactly right. And people pre-plan because you know there are deadlines, and you learn about deadlines of, you know, can I get into that yoga class, so you know people can sign up for all these activities. It’s not the day program, though. It’s really designed to complement, you know, the other interests that people have, because being located here in this urban area, where public transit is just a couple blocks away, people are learning how to get to their big lives. We know transportation is a big issue in terms of how people access that life, and also. Yeah, natural consequences. We have all learned from the power of natural consequences, and, and also the dignity of risk. You know what happens when I’ve run out of money, because I blew it this weekend, and you know, and what happens if I’ve missed my bus stop. And what happens as a mom or dad who recognizes that nobody knows their loved one as well as they do, and helping our loved one build those, those more independent lives require us to have our fingerprints all over it, because it is personalized, and and it doesn’t mean that it has to be us forever. That’s what we’re doing here, right, through our support specialists, and our nutrition specialists, and our employment team, and you know, helping people learn how to live more independently, and also learn how to learn from others, you know that aren’t mom and dad or a family member,
BM:
Right, expanding their global view of life, not just so micro but macro, at the macro level of going beyond the intersection of mom, dad, aunt, uncle, you know, like the cousins and whatever, but going past that, but also going past professionals as well, because kids are taught to learn from professionals, especially autistic children, because they have the OT, the speech, the PT, and all the other, all the other T’s that exist, right? But it sounds like, again, this is an expansion of what about the grocery, you know, individuals that work there. What about the bus drivers? What about, you know, the Uber driver, or whomever? I don’t. However, it’s set up, it sounds like it’s, it’s touching the macro level of going global, of going beyond the routine of what they’re used to, and expanding it to people that exist in the community, but they may not interact with in that capacity.
DR:
Bingo again. Well, you’re nailing it Bea. So, yes. So, for us, first place AZ, as a residential developer, propped up this 81,000 square foot property, and two others that are that were developed in collaboration with, then the Foundation for Senior Living, so beautiful examples of multi-generational living, so learning by doing here in our own backyard, and then First Place Global is building our broader marketplace and community, and working with local communities across the country on local housing market analysis, so they are working with those local leaders, those stakeholders, those people who know their local jurisdiction, their philanthropists, their, you know, real estate developers, and and know what they need and what they want in their communities, and we are launching the Chicago housing market analysis this month. That is our 12th housing market analysis, and from these analyzes there are valuable data points, there are wonderful opportunities for organizations to practice working together, and there importantly is a narrative, a guiding narrative, so that we can speak the same language. I love different brains, because it’s how you bring stories to all of us, and helping us understand the dimensions of different brains. Well, there are different kinds of real estate that will accommodate and meet the needs of different kinds of people. So, the fact that I’m just turned 65 doesn’t tell you what I need as a senior or want, and just because someone has autism or a disability that doesn’t define what they need or want, so through the third edition of A Place in the World, which is our report that sets forth nomenclature, a guiding narrative, so that we can better understand the real estate, the supports that need to go with that real estate, how it gets paid for, and also who you are and what you need, or what your loved one needs. So, so you can understand whether I need a property that’s 24/7 medical, you know, support. First place Phoenix is a consumer controlled property for low and moderate support needs. It’s not for everyone, and it is our space, as I’ve mentioned, where we’re testing all kinds of things, and we’re working with properties across the country through First Place Global, along with we. Research institutions to make sure that we understand how to benchmark an industry that this really early on in its development, it there are far more options than group homes, although those remain a viable option, but you know there’s a lot to be said by allowing people to choose in the same way that seniors get to choose, and the rest of us, and veterans, and so many others, so, so we’re, we’re at the, you know, these early stages, and we’re doing our best to inform what local communities can do, and we love being able to share First Place Phoenix and our community with others and learn from others too, so as I shared before we even jumped on this recording, I’m a perpetual learner, I’m curious, and you know when we’re not, you know, we haven’t nailed this, but we’re learning all the time, and and the next generation of leaders will stand on our shoulders, just like I’ve had the privilege of standing on the shoulders of people who, who have also paved the way, and, and guided, you know, my journey as well.
BM:
It sounds like there’s a lot of expansion that’s coming from First Place, right? I, it sounds to me that there’s a lot of, okay, here’s the original, but then from that we also see different needs, and we see more needs, and we see needs that need to be curated in this way or in that way, and this unfortunately requires partnership of more, right, like we can’t do it all, because otherwise you would, it requires partnership, collaboration of more. Is this part of the Global Leadership Institute? That can you tell me more about that? Because I’m hearing from you, your I love your thirst for information, and I’ll give you some fun fact. What keeps us young is a desire to want to learn, so yes, you’re 65 but you are very young, you have a young brain, because as long as, as long as you have the desire to learn, you’re building, you have more neuroplasticity than someone who’s just stagnant, and you know, know everything, and doesn’t want to learn more, even from something that’s been successful, so that’s a pleasure to hear from someone like me. I’m like, oh, loving to learn is the first goal here, because that means you know there could be more to be done here. So, is the expansion part of the Global Leadership Institute, or can you tell me more about that? I’d love to learn more.
DR:
Absolutely, and, and thank you. I can hardly wait to get home and tell my husband that I have a young brain. No, I’m going to quote you on that, Bee. So we are organized around five centers here at the Global Leadership Institute, and we have a center for community development, which is bringing together leaders from around the world on an annual basis through our symposia. Our 15th Global Symposia will be held October 14 through the 16th in Phoenix, and we invite you and your listeners and viewers to join us, and we focus on those critical areas of community development, housing, employment, healthcare, training, and education, not just our own, but the training and education for those healthcare workers, for the employers and for the broader community, we also have a center for education, training, and employment, which has bodies of curriculum. One of those bodies of curriculum is the core of that transition academy I mentioned, and we have licensed that to 19 organizations across North America. We have a center for applied research, and that research center is not only facilitating and quarterbacking the housing market analysis, but also through a translational research collective working with properties across the country to understand different locations, different models. What’s working? What are those outcomes? We have also a center for expression, which is all about communication, because you know the eyes can roll and glaze over when you start waxing on about too much data. How do we share our stories, and we do those – we share those stories through the expression of those we serve, and also through the arts and the humanities, and how we capture the interest and attention of people who aren’t part of this journey, like you and I are. But to the broader community, and then our Daniel Jordan Fiddle Foundation Center for Public Policy, we’re not going to solve all the issues here from Phoenix, Arizona, but when Phoenix and Dallas Fort Worth and the Panhandle of Florida and Red Bank, New Jersey, and Cincinnati, and you know, and Cleveland, and so many other communities across the country are teaming up to demonstrate by example what works, then we can start moving forward in a more robust way on how we, how we create major shifts in public policy, and, and I often talk about the tri sector super highway, because it takes all of us, you know. In this charitable nonprofit lane, we have the great privilege of having donors who, who support a big vision and who want things to be better. They’re giving us a chance to succeed, and also an opportunity to fail. One of our larger donors says, “Look, if you’re not failing, you’re not trying hard enough, so you can’t always play it safe when you’re innovating and when you’re researching. I mean, you know, look at the most significant percentage of research is actually failure, like what isn’t working, so you think about what do we do on a lane that is philanthropic, so just think money philanthropic, and what you do based on the data from those models of how that can inform public policy officials to say look, you can spend this amount, you can spend less, or you can spend it now, or you’re going to spend a whole lot more later. So, how can we inform policy to actually create and the incentive for the next lane, which is the private sector? Charitable nonprofits are only going to go so far in creating the marketplace. The private sector has to be alongside of us, and public policy can create some incentives for that, and I think about groups like First Place Global in the HOV lane. We’re a charitable nonprofit, and we’re in the HOV lane because we bring them all with us, so we’re not only the aggregator of how we build community, but the aggregator of resources of having a group in our charitable nonprofit work that is not leaning red, not leaning blue, but when you think about right down the middle, you know, the whole spectrum of autism or spectrum of disabilities, like when we get it in the middle, we get community development right for a lot of people, those we love, and the rest people too. And that’s something I learned early in my career about real estate and community development, is that never underestimate the power of community.
BM:
I agree, I agree and I love that. And speaking of community, if you were to give advice to our community, moms like myself, like you, you know, who are in a different stage of life right now, right, because again, I have a younger child, what, what advice would you give to parents who want, you know, an opportunity for their neurodivergent child to gain independence, but again, you’re, you’re referencing more than independence. First place to me is not just independence. Again, there’s a, there’s a macro level system that I hear you’re referencing that goes beyond waking up, brushing your teeth, combing your hair. It goes beyond that, and when you’re in the, you know, thick of it when they’re young, that’s your concern, right? Right now, my concern is, please do not forget to put on deodorant, that’s my concern, but that’s because that’s where I’m at developmentally. But what would you, what advice would you give to parents, for you know, I mean, just to hear about Matt, and how old he is now, and it just sounds beautiful to me. It sounds beautiful. It sounds wonderful. And that, what would you give to parents? What would you say to them?
DR:
Don’t forget to put on your oxygen mask before affixing it to your child’s face. And what is it that you can do to recognize this is a marathon, and what’s going to take for you to go the distance, and you’re not going to run it alone. So, who do you team up with? What talents, skills, resources can you bring to the table? You have the gift of communication and spirit be, and I love being on this program with you. What do each of us have? I have the gift of having a career in real estate and community development, and have been dreaming about this for a very long time. I have the gift of being a native Phoenician, so I could tap into my friends, my family. My clients to help us dream and help me learn and help us learn and build our team, so never underestimate what can happen when you bring really smart people in the room, and when hearts connect, and when we think about what it is we can do, and with the resources that we have at that moment, you are, you know, living different state, a different stage of life than I am, so, so recognize, you know, where you are and what you can do at this moment, and then you know what you’ll be able to do next, but never be afraid of of dreaming bigger, and and that’s also what brings people together, of dreaming about something bigger than yourself. What can we do together that we cannot do alone, and that’s building a community, and building it smartly, building it with heart, building what is possible at this time, what is permissible at this time, what is pragmatic or even profitable at this time, and that’s building a marketplace, and a marketplace is built when the when the right thing to do becomes the easy thing to do, becomes the rewarding thing to do, becomes the thing that people understand that you’re doing, and we’ve been building toward that for some time, and and we don’t have to figure it out alone, there were options for us early on of being gifted 40 acres, and we were going to go build all the infrastructure for this 40 acre plan community development, and, and, and, and, and we stopped ourselves to say, why wouldn’t we just leverage what’s already here? We already have sidewalks here in the urban area, we already have a transit system and a health care, you know, center, and, and so think about what you can do to leverage, and maybe that leverage is going to be in your school right now, and activating people to get out and vote, because that’s really important, really important, that no matter who’s elected, that they understand who we represent, they have our backs through all cycles, and you know, and throughout the political parties, what can we do to bring parents and families together aligned around, you know, the local employer, and you know, opening the door for more jobs and opportunities, or or teaming up with people who may know more about the real estate development than then you might, right? So, so understanding where we are, what we can do, and then the power of what we can do together, that’s that’s the advice that I would give to people, while you have that oxygen mask on, and I’m, I’m guilty of that too, I mean, those are lived experiences of, of, you know, not getting enough oxygen at certain moments of this journey, which spans now, you know, several decades, we co-founded the Southwest Autism Research and Resource Center back in 1997 and always dreamed about the vision of homes, but it was in 2012 that we realized that real estate has a much different risk tolerance than the supports and the research and the kinds of clinical programs that SARC was advancing, so we created a separate nonprofit, and that’s really important too, of taking stock where you are at this moment and making sure that you know you’re in the right place and with the same, you know, entity, or does it need to be a different entity, and I think, as much as you know, we teach our kids, they teach us a whole lot more.
BM:
I agree, I agree, I agree 100% I, I have to say, I’ve heard put the oxygen mask on yourself several times in many, many different ways, in many different facets, but what’s unique about how you’ve just said it, or how I took it in, because perception is reality, but what I perceived it, you just said to me, is putting the oxygen mask on yourself to tap into your own unique skill set, and not just what is it I can do for my kid, but what is it that I can do? What is it that I have access to, and you’re not going to be able to tap into that if you’re not breathing right? If, if you haven’t stopped and pause on yourself, so I have not heard it described that way to tap into you giving your. Yourself the time and go, what’s my skill set? What is it that I can do? What is my gift, and how can that gift help tailor something for my child, but really tapping into my gift, and I’ve.. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it described that way, or at least that’s how I took it.
DR:
I love your interpretation, and I, you know, I get up early, and my feet hit the floor. It’s my rocket fuel, and if I drank Red Bull, and I’ve never had one, it would probably be my jolt, you know? That what gets me going, and having hope gets me going, having purpose, and it’s not just ours, it’s we know from research too that people don’t need more pills, they need purpose and being connected to other people, that’s that’s how we how we find our meaning, our happiness, our Red Bull of life, you know. And, and I have no ownership in that stock either, so I didn’t mean to just promote them twice, but I’ve never had one. So I just want to put full disclaimer: I try to limit all caffeine. I have enough energy.
BM:
Well, I was going to say, if you get up going, and I’m one of those people, too. I’m not a, I’m not a coffee drinker, because I don’t really know what it would do. I’m already on. I wake up, yeah, I open my eyes. Usually, I kind of linger to get out of the bed, because the minute I am out, I’m not sitting back down again. So, usually, once my feet hit the floor, the day has started, like my day started. I’m go, go, go, and it sounds to me you’re, you’re similar in that way, in terms of just what’s next, what, what is there to do, what is there to accomplish, and wow, what a, what a joy to speak to you, what an absolute.
DR:
Well, thank you, fellow mother community developer. Our work is never done. Yeah, so you know, at every age, you know, there’s more we can do. It’s important to take the moments to reflect and to celebrate.
BM:
How do we learn more about you and your work, and you know, where can we find you? Where are you located? How do we learn more?
DR:
We have two websites. The website, if you’re interested in leasing or the Transition Academy, is FirstPlaceAZ.org and for First Place Global, it’s FirstPlaceGlobal.org and there you’ll learn about the symposia, the quarterly webinars, the curriculum that is available, the technical assistance, the housing market analyzes, and what we’re doing to mature the marketplace, and to ensure that housing options for this population are as bountiful as they are for everyone else. We all need choices.
BM:
I love that, Denise. It’s been beyond, beyond a pleasure speaking with you today. You are doing phenomenal human work. You are a wonderful human, and I’m glad I get to exist during this time in this space with you. I really, I feel fortunate to be living in the same time and space as you. So, you’re doing wonderful things. Thank you so much.
DR:
Thank you. Be and I look forward to continuing our conversation and our relationship with different brains, which has been traveling with us for well over a decade, and I love being reminded of our dear friend Hackie Reitman, who, who had a vision, and we all bought into that, and we still do.
BM:
And we still do, and that’s why we’re keeping it going.
DR:
You bet.