Vocational rehabilitation counselor and neuroinclusion consultant Charles Kransberger discusses the rise of neuroinclusive workplaces and offers practical steps to build careers.
About our guest: Charles Kransberger is a credentialed vocational rehabilitation counselor and talent acquisition consultant dedicated to advancing neuroinclusion in the workplace. He has worked across trade schools, tech startups, government agencies, higher education, and nonprofits, with expertise in workplace accommodations and neurodiversity program implementation. He helps organizations understand the business value of recruiting and supporting neurodistinct professionals while empowering individuals in their careers. Connected to a global network of advocates, he champions a future where authentic, scalable neuroinclusion shapes workplace culture and strategy.
For more about Charles’ work: https://www.nitw.org/
For more about host Bea Moise: https://beatricemoise.com/
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Note: the following transcription was automatically generated. Some imperfections may exist.
BEA MOISE (BM):
Hello and welcome to Exploring Different Brains. I’m B Moyes, and I’ll be your host today. And today’s guest is a leader in neuro inclusion and a trusted vocational rehab counselor and talent acquisition consultant, Charles Cransberger. He has worked across tech, government, higher education, and not for profit, so all with one mission: helping organizations recognize the immense value of neurodistinct talent. And I’m also very happy to say, a brand new friend of mine. So, Charles, welcome!
CHARLES KRANSBERGER (CK):
Thanks for having me, B, and I appreciate that generous introduction. Happy to be here.
BM:
Well, Charles, first we’re going to start off with you introducing yourself to our audience so that they can get an overview of the work that you do.
CK:
Absolutely. So yeah, like B said, Charles Cransberger, I’ve been in the disability and neurodiversity space for about 15 years now. It’s really all I’ve ever done, and like B was saying, it’s taken me on quite a journey through all kinds of different systems. So K 12 special education, vocational rehabilitation counseling at a state vocational rehabilitation agency, working at a large university in disability services, a tech startup, and now there’s essentially three different hats that I wear. So I’m a full time business consultant with a nonprofit called Neurodiversity in the Workplace. So we work with some of the most mature and comprehensive neurodiversity in programs in existence in the business world, like Bank of America, Dell, CVS, and many others. In the evenings and on the weekends, I essentially have packaged that vocational rehabilitation counselor skill sets into entrepreneurship, so I do one-on-one career counseling for folks who are looking to get a job, keep a job, or otherwise advance their careers. And then the third hat is I’m the father of a four-year-old autistic son who has some high support needs. So it’s a conversation that I, you know, isn’t just nine to five for me. It’s more of a 24-seven, three-65 kind of thing.
BM:
It’s every day,
CK:
right? Exactly.
BM:
It’s your morn. It’s your work. It’s your passion. It’s your family. It’s it’s everything. So, and you and I do share that in common because we’ve spoken before, and I’m like, yeah, this is this is every single day, you know. And I think you know currently when someone says, you know, how does it feel like to have this all the time? Basically, like when you’re constantly dealing with neurodivergent brain, in a way, it’s therapeutic for me. Like in a way, I find it incredibly healing. Like okay, I get to talk to other people, so it doesn’t feel so alone. But it can also feel very overwhelming because it’s all the time. So I think it just depends on your mindset and where you know how you feel about it. Like, how do you define authentic neuroinclusion? Like, how how do you define that, and what led you to become a champion for being authentically new or inclusive. I’m guessing there’s more behind it because if you’ve been in this space for 15 years and your son is four, there was there was there’s there’s there’s a gap here. Right. Yeah. My my
CK:
story is kind of out of order for a lot of folks who like get into the space as a result of their kids being identified and being part of their support system. So, yeah, I can see how the timeline is a little bit messed up compared to the usual story, right?
BM:
No, I love that because it’s my timeline too. I’ve been in the space, you know, way before my son Jake. So, people always ask me, did I get into it because of my son? And I said no. I was already doing this. He just gave me the personal perspective, like the real lived-in experience for it. But yeah. So how how would you define your inclusion, like for what you do in your space?
CK:
Right. Yeah. I think there have been different vehicles for the conversation, and I’ll speak about a business context for for this response. The original vehicle was essentially compliance, right? So, how do we comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act? Again, in a U.S. context, how do we make sure that we’re following federal law and we don’t get slap on the wrists or open ourselves up to litigation, right? So that was really the prevailing narrative for decades, and that doesn’t feel like authentic neuroinclusion to me. That’s more of the the floor rather than the ceiling, right? So I think it’s been more so about these last 13 years, like really around 2013 is when the conversation began to change, as some of these companies like SAP, Microsoft, and others really jumped into this space and were asking themselves, okay, how can we go from compliance to community and start thinking about optimization, not just from a candidate support perspective and getting more out of. Autistic and otherwise neurodistinct professionals, but what’s in it for us as well? So yeah, we’re we’re a business that wants to drive revenue and some of those bottom line impacts that they’re releasing on their quarterly reports. You know how can the neuro inclusion program be aligned with those broader goals, right? So it went from kind of a compliance thing to a let’s do the right thing kind of a conversation. To wow, this is actually about business performance.
BM:
That makes that makes a lot of sense to me. And I think again, just having all of that align and synergy to make it make sense for businesses as well as what you’re trying to get accomplished. I know you often talk about business case for hiring neurodistinct professionals. Can you give us an idea of how you make that case for hiring neurodistinct professionals?
CK:
Yeah, absolutely. So there’s been different again motivations for folks who are are entering the space, and it’s one of those things that it’s not going to look the exact same. Like we work with some small and mid-sized businesses, we work with some big, broad-shouldered Fortune 500 companies, and at different seasons of the economic cycle, there’s going to be different motivations for again, what is that business case, right? So in the in the early part of pandemic, we saw this great resignation happening, right, where the workforce was very mobile and moving around from one job to another, and the candidates had a lot of leverage there, right. So that’s where companies were really reaching out to us, like, “Hey, we have a talent acquisition issue. We have a employee retention issue. How can we build a culture and systems that are more attractive to these folks? That there’s more incentive to stay. And like we talked about with the authentic neuroinclusion piece, as millennials and Gen Z who are entering the workforce with much higher likelihood of having been identified as neurodistinct early in life, that’s been a non-negotiable for a lot of them as they’re entering the workforce, as well as in parallel, these more mid-career professionals who are realizing they have these identities in their 40s, 50s, and beyond. Right, so it’s it’s created these discussions where it’s become a bigger pain points and priority for people, and if they’re feeling that friction, you know, maybe they’re going to go to somebody who is more responsive to their priorities and pain points, and has a culture that’s more attractive to them. In a 2026 context, right now, a lot of the conversations we’re having with companies is less so about that great resignation piece. We’re actually in an era where there’s a lot of layoffs, and it’s really the first time where headcount is flattening, even if revenues are growing. Right, those things used to always be correlated and and kind of run in parallel with each other. So it’s it’s been less of a again talent acquisition perspective and more of a how do we drive efficiency and limit some of that costly miscommunication among our teams? So how do we again think of those systems level from how are we running our team meetings and our events and what do our accommodation request processes look like and if they need support is that the best process to follow or is this actually like an informal adjustment that we can work out distinct of that accommodation request process, and so on? It’s been amazing to see that aperture broaden from the business’s perspective as far as what’s in it for us. What’s that bottom line value look like when we invest in neurodiversity programs?
BM:
Do you find that companies are still having a hard time understanding the value of neurodiverse talent? Like, what what is it that companies still do not understand about the value of of individual having neurodiverse? You know, being neurodivergent. What is still misunderstood,
CK:
Again, I’m speaking from a a U.S. context, and even even still, when I’m introducing myself to people and they ask me what I do for a living, and I say I’m a neurodiversity consultant, they’re like, “Neurodiversity? Never heard of that? What is it? Right. So there there are certain regions and pockets where I think that awareness is well established, and they’ve they’ve started to accept and act on some of those principles, and and the business case has become more clear for other for a lot of folks. And even when we’re doing trainings and events, that training or event is their entry point to the conversation, right? So yeah, I think as far as even getting the word out of a strengths-based neurodiversity-affirming perspective that is distinct of that traditional medical and legal model that so many folks have been socialized with and gain their understanding of autism, of ADHD, of dyslexia through that lens that more so frames it as. A pathology, and in the context of the world of work, potentially a liability, right? Yeah, I think that’s the the gap that we are trying to bridge in our daily work is getting that message out there, concretely stating what it looked like with Kate’s studies, with research, and getting people on the same page about what we’re trying to achieve and how we’re going to get there.
BM:
What I think my question is: You’re so passionate about this, and you seem to have such a, you know, like a spirit about you of like I really want this information and education to be known, especially in the workplace. Obviously, neurodiversity in the workplace. What brought you here? How did this all align for you to say this is the work that I want to do 15 years ago? Like, how did you come up? How did you get here?
CK:
I do feel fortunate to to have that passion because I know some people search for that passion their entire life and never really find it, and I do feel very fortunate to to have that reveal itself to me at about 17 years old, and and even before that, you know, I didn’t have to look far even beyond my old own household to get inspiration. So my mother was a special education para professional. I’m from a small midwestern town. I like to tell people we had drive your tractor to school day, so that they can kind of get a sense of of what the vibe was, and it was small enough, just a couple 100 kids in my whole school district, that I saw my mother doing her job pretty much every day. So she’s working one on one with my classmates who may have had Down syndrome or been autistic or whatever the case was, and she’s introducing them to me from a strength space perspective, like he’s awesome at math. He loves the Green Bay Packers too. He loves Pokemon too. Whatever, like we had some common ground to be able to form friendships off of, and I was in follow inspired to follow in her footsteps, coming from that lineage of disability providers. So I think that was the initial spark, and then it was a trial and error process from there to figure out, okay, what is my lane? Is it direct service provider? Is it again more so the K 12 education or university setting? And then I ultimately landed on wanting to deliver impact to that community in the scope of employment services, because I think as I you know became more independent and launched myself into adulthood, I was like, okay, a job is really a cornerstone of wellness. Like you, yeah, you you find friends, you have money to be able to take care of yourself and travel and live a rich lifestyle consistent with your goals and capabilities, and there’s there’s so many indicators of mental health and physical health that are correlated with having a career that aligns with your interests and informed choice. So I think that’s how I narrowed it down to wanting to be in this employment space.
BM:
It sounded as if you know, based off you know getting the exposure from your mom, and I love that she did the strength-based teaching. You know, focusing on what we can do as opposed to highlighting the deficits that exist because the deficits are there; they’re not going anywhere. But when we ignore the strengths, those are the things that tend to kind of go by the wayside because we’re not paying attention to them, and we’re not growing it. So it’s interesting that, in a way, what you’re doing now is exactly align with that. It’s like, listen, there’s strengths here. Let’s build on that. Let’s recognize some weaknesses, but there’s strengths that we could build on, and there’s things that we can do that other individuals or other companies or organizations may not be aware of. So it sounds like such a perfect, you know. Again, you had to do the ironing out the details, but you already had the you had a solid foundation to start neurodiversity in the workplace. So tell us about neurodiversity in the workplace, you’re not for profit. Can you tell me more about
CK:
it? Yeah, absolutely. We’ve been around for about the last 13 years. So again, kind of that moment in 2013 that was the spark for this whole ecosystem was folks like Microsoft and SAP jumping into the space originally with autism focused, hiring focused programs. They had reached out to the Arc of Philadelphia because the Arc has a model for providing job coaching for folks with intellectual and developmental disabilities. So they said that’s not exactly what we’re looking for, but we’re looking for some kind of coaching and support. So it’s not necessarily the what’s referred to sometimes as hand-over-hand job coaching, where you’re actually walking folks through the mechanics and fundamentals of their role, but more so, what would shoulder-to-shoulder, so to speak, job coaching look like, where maybe these folks have college degrees, they have the technical skills, they know how to do those essential. Functions of their job, but it’s more so like transitioning to a new role, getting used to their new commute to and from work, executive functioning, managing relationships with colleagues and customers and supervisors, navigating the sensory environments of the workplace, navigating that hidden curriculum of those implicit expectations that nobody ever says to you in very concrete terms, but you’re expected to just pick up on through observation and deduction, right? So those were the the types of barriers that they were looking to address as they’re launching these autism and then eventually neurodiversity at work programs. So after those first couple of companies jumped in shortly thereafter. In the years to come, about 60 other companies joined the party and joined this big collective called the Neurodiversity at Work Employer Roundtable. Excuse me. So as those 60 plus companies are launching these Autism at Work and Neurodiversity at Work programs, they needed an ecosystem of solution providers to provide talent solutions, to provide technology solutions, and consulting solutions. So neurodiversity in the workplace formed and grew as a team to be able to address those gaps for these companies who are launching these programs and wanting to to do well as they launch, because it’s easy to launch without considering those critical success factors, and and sometimes it backfires in in that way. And there have been case studies of that, unfortunately. So that was really the the genesis of neurodiversity in the workplace, and yeah, very thankful that that ecosystem formed. Is it wasn’t even something that really existed, you know, way back in the early 2000s as I was launching my career. So yeah, I feel very fortunate to to be part of this.
BM:
No, you you created a pathway moving forward for neurodivergent individuals that really does, you know, give them the ability to be included, you know, to be part of the conversation, to be part of the dynamic of what it is to be in the workforce, because statistically speaking, in the past, and obviously, people like yourself, people like me, were trying to change the stats of the past. Of basically, individuals that are talented and capable do not get hired. Right? They are not. They even if they do get hired, they don’t stay employed because of just things, or they do not move up in the corporate ladder because they don’t understand just the social requirements and social expectations of being in corporate or whatever it is the environment is in. So you know, understanding that they can have hard skills but not soft skills, right? Like there’s just certain things like, yeah, I can do this, but what do you mean I have to attend the gathering that’s happening for in the lunchroom for someone’s birthday? I don’t care about that, you know. Like that’s not important to me, and that could be misconstrued as something that it isn’t. So I think having your organization to be part of the education piece, because sometimes the education is coming from an area where it is not fully understood. You know, we’re teaching something, but not necessarily from a point of understanding, but more of like just do it. So, I I love I love what I love I love what your organization’s doing. I can’t say that enough because you’re right about a job being livelihood and wellness. Right, it’s not just money that’s a big part of it to maintain independence, but it is your social network. You know, it is a place you’re going to spend. You know, six to eight hours. These are the people you’re going to see more than your family at times. So it it it’s it’s a lot. And if you remove that from an individual, what is their quality of life? What does that look like, especially during those years where you’re building your sense of self and identity, and if you don’t build anything around that, what does that look like? And not that a career is your identity, but it’s a part of it. Your ability to sustain yourself, maintain a routine, have structure-you know, have independence-that’s an important piece. So, I think just you highlighting all of that-it’s just such important work. It’s just such beautiful and important work. So I commend you for it.
CK:
Appreciate that. Yeah, love everything that you said. As far as the miscommunication being a two-way street, and and I think that’s how we position ourselves as almost like translators between people who think differently and in in distinct ways, like okay, this is how you’re being perceived, and this was the person’s real intent, even though it didn’t come across that way. Like that, that’s definitely a big part of of our role, and and being that intermediary between parties to address that that friction and miscommunication. And yeah, love. You said about the the identity piece too. You know, as somebody who has experience with a layoff, and you know, those two months not working were very eye opening to realize, okay, this really is a huge part of my wellness, and like you said, my identity. And if I’m not driving impact for this community, it doesn’t feel good. And and and having those types of realizations was very again eye opening, and I do realize that there’s a lot of people who are laid off or unemployed for a lot more than seven weeks, and I can imagine what that looks like, right? So yeah, it’s it’s definitely something that I always keep in mind as I’m sourcing and screening candidates, and even in my coaching side of my my side hustle, it’s something I’m trying to be responsive to as I’m meeting folks and meeting them where they’re at.
BM:
Yeah, no, that’s an important point, and I think again, the identity piece, especially for the neurodivergent community, for us sometimes our identity comes really early with like I want to do this, and this is the only thing I want to do. And what tends to happen is you build a whole sense of self around this, whatever this thing is. And some of us do not necessarily shift in direction and move in any particular way. It’s like, okay, how do I now create a world where I get paid for this this thing that I’ve been passionate about since I was seven, right? This thing that I’ve loved doing since I was two, and and I think you know I think of someone like my son, who’s who who has loved cooking since the beginning of time, like that’s just been his thing, cooking food, watching people eat, watching food videos, watching people cook, whatever. Just you know this capacity of it, and yeah, he’s not going to be interested in anything else because this is this been his thing since the beginning of time, and it is hard for a brain like that to pivot and and move away from that sense of self. It’s like if I identify as being a chef or a cook or working as a you know being around food, and I’m not doing that for a living. I’m just sitting at home. What does that mean, you know? And again, he’s young, but that’s how I like to see it-the identity piece of the sense of self. It it becomes all it becomes more than what other people are aware of, especially for this population.
CK:
For sure, yeah. I’ve I’ve heard it described before as a interest based nervous system. When they’re when they’re into something, they’re they’re really into it, and those interests are intense, and if you can align that with your career trajectory, it’s it’s really a win-win because you have a inexhaustible passion for that subject. And I’m sure your son could tell me about cooking techniques and dishes that I’ve never heard of before, and execute on those. So you you develop this subject matter expertise in those areas as well, and as long as you’re doing that work to understand what is my labor market fit in that area, yes, and try to look into your crystal ball, doing a labor market analysis, especially for early career folks who are in that career planning piece, to understand what is this labor market going to look like 510, years from now? Yeah, these different economic forces that are in the ether-you know-how is that going to impact the future trajectory of my career? And being very sober about that, and looking for that alignment between your labor market fit and your passions, because yeah, I think a lot of people follow their passions in a direction that ultimately did not end up bearing fruit, and sometimes there’s six figure student loans wrapped up in all that, and it it doesn’t always translate to labor market fit. So you have to have both of those pieces. Yeah,
BM:
you do, you do. Now, in speaking of trends and moving into the future, and you know, do you see or what trends or innovations that you’re seeing that makes you feel very optimistic about what the future look like for neuroinclusive work? Like, is there anything you see that you’re like, yeah, this is headed in the right direction?
CK:
Yeah, I mean, again, we’re we’re both parents of neurodistainst kiddos, right? There’s nowhere I would rather be raising an autistic son than in the U.S. in 2026, like point blank period. So just to to state that very clearly, like I’ve met a lot of folks who are didn’t find out they were autistic until their 50s and 60s, had a huge impact on their relationships and their career, and they have navigated a lot of those career and life transitions without awareness and acceptance and support. So yeah, I am very optimistic and feel like the the future looks bright for kids like ours. And something that’s been really encouraging to me is to see the. Aperture continue to get broader and broader for quote unquote what are these folks good at? What’s a good career for them? Right. So again, back in 2013, I think just as a product of a lot of the groundbreaking companies who started having messaging and marketing around neurodiversity, inclusion, and the business case, and so on. A lot of them were in tech and finance, right? So they were speaking to case studies about what success looked like in tech and finance. So if other people are hearing that messaging and that’s their entry point to the conversation, maybe that creates this perception, like, okay, that’s the only type of careers that these folks are good at, the rote, the monotonous kind of tasks. You know, I’ve seen a lot of messaging about this, as well as kind of the the Rain Man stereotype about these folks are you know savants in a certain area and can make your company a lot of money, but you know just embrace some of the social awkwardness and and this type of thing, right? When when in reality, we’re talking about over a billion people globally and a skill set that is as diverse as folks who are not neurodistinct So it’s been amazing to work with companies in healthcare, like a children’s hospital. Worked with a law firm. Worked with a design-build construction company that’s hiring engineers. Seen a lot of growth in the last few years in the skilled trades, where autistic folks are getting jobs as electricians and automotive mechanics and welders. And you talked about culinary programs before. Like it’s it’s been amazing to see the ecosystem be responsive to that palette of interests and strengths that is amongst this group of professionals, and for those entry points into a variety of different organizations to become more mature and comprehensive.
BM:
It sounds like there’s definitely more options, you know, than like there’s definitely more that you can do. It’s not limited to counting numbers or just looking at data points all day. Again, there’s a space for that, but there are a lot of individuals who are just not interested in that, but can do other things. So, I’m also optimistic, especially the younger coaching clients that I have that are in college, and they’re so, their well-being is a lot is a lot more intact than I can say of the generations before, and you know, there’s this, I guess, this partnership or collaboration between millennials and the Gen Zs, where I’m a millennial and I’m like, I really do like the Gen Zs, like their ability to be very like aware and know what they are and know what they’re doing and have a sense of balance. Of I’m not working for this, I’m not doing that. Like it’s it’s it’s quite uplifting from my perspective. I’m like, wow, you you really have a good sense of self. Where, and I’m sure you’ve encountered this yourself, where you’ve met someone who is neurodivergent, but they don’t have a clue. Like they have no idea, and they’ve just had this really difficult life because of I didn’t know this was how my brain processed information, or how I thought, where the optimism I see in the younger generation is, I know exactly how my brain. So I’m optimistic as well. I think I think you and I share that with understanding the younger generation definitely will do better in that space than the ones before,
CK:
100% really well said.
BM:
Yeah. So obviously, if before someone can be part of a near inclusive workplace, they have to actually discover their career path and get hired. Can you talk a bit about what supports are about that, like for that, and how they they can connect with them. Like, how would they figure out? Okay, this is what I want to do. This is the career path. How do I get hired? Like, are there resources that your company help with that at all, or anything in general?
CK:
Yeah, it’s it’s a big question. Yeah, folks are at different different parts of their career journey, and some folks are making mid career pivots, and you know some folks are very young and figuring out you know where where do I start? I have a variety of interests, and I read articles saying that the average person has seven different career paths, and like okay, what is this journey going to look like for me? Because I’m again committing to trying to get a certification or get a degree or develop these skills, and I want to make sure that that time and money and other resources invested are are well spent and ultimately productive long term. So I I always think back to when I was working as a vocational rehabilitation counselor for the state of Colorado. I was doing. Intake with a student who was 16, you know, asking her what she wanted to do with her career. She said, “I kind of want to be an engineer, but I also kind of want to be the next Ariana Grande. I was like, “Okay, those those are very different goals. Like, let’s let’s unpack that a little bit. And I love it when people start the conversation early, and and I think that again, maybe for the folks who are 15 to 21 in this audience, there are what you call pre-employment transition services that are authorized through a law called the Workforce Innovation Opportunity Act of 2014. So when I was doing an intake with a a candidate who was 15? I was authorized to provide those services to them, like paid work experiences. So I could go to places in my community in Denver, like the zoo, like the botanical garden, like the aquarium that are traditionally very volunteer-based, and say, “Hey, you know, I have this client who’s interested in horticulture or agriculture, or working with animals, or there was a music recording studio where called Youth on Record, where where they would try to expose folks to different careers in the music industry, and I could get them a paid work experience over the summer there. Where as the Voc Rehab counselor, my agency was paying their salary, and I could approach the business and say, “Hey, I have somebody. We’re trying to build up their resume. I’ll pay their salary on behalf of the Voc Rehab agency. Can you just supervise them, give them feedback, make this constructive? So I think a lot of times there’s there can be too much planning and not enough action because for for a lot of my folks they need to feel what it looks like to step foot in these spaces and do these jobs and it’s hard to anticipate what that’s going to feel like without being in that room and that’s that’s the best way to get feedback and becomes motivating because you get some money in your pocket you get good feedback. You’re building that resume and parlaying that into your next opportunity. That’s even more aligned with your interests, even more lucrative. You you start to feel that momentum versus you know if you’re trying to develop the perfect game plan and get the years long degrees and certifications, and then you’re finally in the room. It becomes really hard, right? So that’s something I do a lot with my career counseling caseload. Is you know, can we do informational interviews and job shadows, and what’s the entry level version of your long term career path that we can get in that business or an adjacent industry to create that feedback loop and that reinforcement loop, and then parlay it from there. So it’s a series of small steps rather than trying to go from A all the way to Z in in one shot.
BM:
That’s such a great point you’ve just made. Everything you’ve just said, but specifically the over planning and the lack of doing. And I think there’s definitely this desire to, I will create this job in my mind. I will create this career in my mind, and once I am ready, I’ll just jump right into it and not understand that sometimes it’s doing something completely opposite of what you ever thought about. But that’s creating again. These are soft skills. Okay, I didn’t like that. That was uncomfortable. I didn’t like this person. I didn’t like this manager style. I didn’t like this personality. But I, I survived it. I, I, I did better, and I got through it. So now, I can do something else, and I could do something else, which will eventually land you where you want to be, but I think that’s such a valid point because I do see, especially with my college age, where we do a lot of planning for the perfect scenario, right? Like, you know, the perfect job, the perfect situation, the perfect work environment, and I think, I think when meeting with people like you and I, who who is doing the thing that we wanted to be doing, you know, and who’s so passionate about it, there is this desire to how do I become you, right? Like how do I land where you’re at without the understanding of, you know, I worked at a theme park when I was you know 17 years old and it was hot and I hated it. You know that part of my story is not out in the universe; it doesn’t exist, but it happened. And I think sometimes, you know, the idea of getting stuck with really trying to come up with the perfect scenario in your head can make you lose track of just action and just kind of just jumping in it, even if it’s not perfect. So that’s a that’s a beautiful point. That’s a really really great point. I do I do want to ask you kind of like something you said earlier about how the current job market looks like. You know, it’s not great. So for those neurodistinct job seekers who may. Feel discouraged or overlooked. What’s a one piece of guidance you you wish you could give them, or you know, information, or what is that one thing you feel like? Hey, this is gonna look better. Like, what what would you say to them?
CK:
Yeah, there. This has been a conversation that I’ve been having a lot with my career counseling caseload because about two thirds of my caseload is 18 to 25, mostly autistic folks, but otherwise neurodistinct folks as well who are navigating that career and life transition and and trying to break into that entry level job and entering a world of work where some of them who you know 10 years ago, you graduate with your bachelor’s in computer science, and that’s kind of a home run. You’re you’re good to go, right? And less true right now, given the the series of economic disruptions that are all happening, you know, simultaneously here. So yeah, I think that there are a lot of folks who are again, like you said, have a very specific vision of how those next steps are are going to unfold, and can be rather uncompromising in in terms of what that first opportunity looks like. And I think that there is a way to build up your skills and your resume to get you there, but again, it’s an iterative process that you’re parlaying one opportunity on top of the next, right? So, I mean, I think of my career in neurodiversity and disability services, starting out with a minimum wage job, doing direct support kind of work, you know, in a supportive home care type of setting, and you know, 15 years later, and a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree and all these other things later, you know, now I’m in something that’s a lot more consistent with my interests and capabilities, right? So yeah, I think I think for folks thinking about what is the next step, right? And that’s that’s what a lot of my clients who I’m doing intake appointments with, I think don’t really have identified. They may have that long term goal in mind, and they just have no idea how to get there. But thinking about that roadmap and what is that next step, and what resources can I leverage? I think those are good conversations to have, and a blind spot for a lot of folks as well. Not knowing what’s available, I was listening to some of your previous episodes where you talk about all the different college support programs that are out there, and figure out what’s what’s the right fit for me. I talked before about some of the neuroinclusive trade schools that are starting to pop up now, and you know you talk about some sectors where headcount has flattened or reduced, not in the skilled trades, right? Like those are those are home run type of opportunities right now for folks that have those interests and skill sets. So I would encourage them not to catastrophize the labor market by assuming that it’s blanket across the board across every industry, and think about again where is that intersection between their skills and labor market fit, short term and long term, and have the right plan because I think it’s it’s those uncompromising and very specific type of plans that I worry about for folks who are in in the world of work right now because, like you said, there is a dynamic labor market that they’re entering into, and they can’t assume that the world of work that they’re entering is going to look exactly what it looked like when you created that plan, however long ago, right? So it’s that probably doesn’t give much solace to to those folks, but but I think those are some things that need to be present in your mind if you’re doing that career planning and thinking about long-term viability.
BM:
Yeah, I think I think your overall point is flexible thinking. Honestly, it’s just kind of working on that skill set that the population we work with they struggle with. Right, the rigidity of that brain is something you’ve encountered. I’ve encountered. You know, it’s like this is this is it. This is the only thing I like. But understanding the flexibility is there’s different ways for you to accomplish this thing that you like, but it’s just not going to be the path that you thought it should be. It’s still you will accomplish it. It’s just not going to look how you envision it, because nothing, nothing ever truly. I’m sure this is not what you envision, you know, you know, like you obviously you had the passion. Your mom already put it in you. You had the desire. You had the drive. You were driven, you know, not just the you know to help, but also just the academic route, but. I’m pretty sure you could go back and say to your younger self, “So this is what we’re going to be doing. We’re going to be doing, and he wouldn’t have believed you
CK:
for sure. And and yeah, again, there’s no place and no time period where I would rather be helping my son launch into his career, right? Like when it’s 2026 and not 1926. Yeah, and this is still a much more attractive world of work for him. But but in the same breath, it it is going to require growing pains and pivots for a lot of folks, and you’re you’re going to have to have some kind of a pain tolerance in order to get where you want to go, especially if you’re ambitious and have big goals for yourself in your career.
BM:
Yeah, well said, Charles. It’s this has been such a pleasure. Like I’ve enjoyed our conversation, but I want our audience to know, our listeners to know how to get in contact with you. So, how do we learn more about you and your work?
CK:
Really appreciate that. Yeah, if you are a business and you’re looking to connect about a neurodiversity program at your company, please reach out. Our website is nitw. org. My email is cransberger@ nitw. org. We would love to connect with you there. And then I do the career counseling through a platform called Wiz Therapy. You can find me there. And then I’m on LinkedIn as well. I connect with a lot of other parents on LinkedIn, and and love having conversations with folks who are you know trying to support their their kiddos and feeling stuck or not sure where to look for help. So yeah, would love to connect with that that parent audience, that professional audience, and the business audience in any capacity.
BM:
Excellent. We’ll be sure to put all of that in our show notes. So, but thank you for the work that you’re doing. Thank you for the passion that you have. Thank you for being. I every time I speak to someone on this podcast, I get more optimistic about the world that we’re headed into because I think what a great first. I feel so privileged. I feel so privileged and honored to be in this time, as you say, in 2026, to be exposed to individuals who are like-minded but are also doing this work, but to be alive and exist in a time where you can tell something is being created-you know, whatever that will be-we may not even see it, but it’s being created. So I always feel so privileged and honored to meet another person, another human that is creating such a beautiful landscape for the future. So, thank you for your work, Charles.
CK:
Yeah, likewise, B. This was a pleasure. Yeah, I know you’re coming on our podcast again soon, so looking forward to repay the favor. And yeah, this was a blast. I would do it again anytime.
BM:
Oh, wonderful! Thank you.