Autism & The Special Olympics, with Kim Hing | Spectrumly Speaking ep. 108
Spectrumly Speaking is also available on: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | SoundCloud
IN THIS WEEK’S EPISODE:
(AUDIO – 33 minutes) In this episode, hosts Haley Moss and Dr. Lori Butts welcome to the show Kim Hing. Kim is an adult autism and mental health self-advocate. Kim was diagnosed in her 40s with Aspergers. Although she has struggled with Major Depression since her early teens, she wasn’t diagnosed until she was in her 30s. She is an active Special Olympic athlete and Global Messenger. Kim currently teaches second-graders in an after school program, and is a Different Brains intern.
For more about the Special Olympics, visit: specialolympics.org
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
For more about Haley, check out her website: haleymoss.net And look for her on Twitter: twitter.com/haleymossart For more about Dr. Butts, check out her website: cfiexperts.com
Have a question or story for us? E-mail us at SpectrumlySpeaking@gmail.com
CLICK HERE FOR PREVIOUS EPISODES
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:
HALEY MOSS (HM):
Hello and welcome to spectrally speaking. I’m Hayley moss, and attorney, author, artist and I’m autistic. today. As usual, I’m joined here by my very wonderful co-host. Hi, I’m
DR LORI BUTTS (LB):
Dr. Lori Butts. I’m a psychologist and an attorney.
HM:
How are you doing?
LB:
I’m great. How about yourself,
HM:
I am hanging in there. I’m working on book edits. And like, before we started recording, I started to tell you that I get to talk to some really interesting people. And I get to learn a lot of stuff. So I just spoke to another psychologist, and I learned so much today. So I’m feeling pretty good.
LB:
That’s exciting. That’s always nice to learn something new.
HM:
I think that’s the greatest privilege of what I do. And even just being part of the spectrum of the team. And I know that we’ve been saying it, we don’t get to record enough, it feels like but every single guest we have and everything that we do here, I feel like I learned so much. And I think one of the pleasures for me as a writer at this point, too, is I get to learn from the people that I interviewed and make things better. So I come from the journalistic school of thought of, if you don’t know the answer to something, don’t just guess, right and sometimes researching it isn’t the best thing to do. So you should talk to somebody who is an expert, or somebody who knows way more than you do in that subject. and talk to them and kind of see what they think and what they’re feeling and what is important in that field. So when I get to psychologists, they know way more about how certain things work for autistic people than I do is I don’t know about how, like an eating disorder or something else may interact, because that’s not an experience I have. But a psychologist might have more insight on that, especially if they specialize in working with autistic people who say have eating disorders or something.
LB:
Or but you also have the life experience. So some of us psychologists who are not neuro diverse can learn a lot from you. So it as long as everybody’s listening. You know, there’s a lot to learn from each other. That’s for sure.
HM:
Absolutely. And I think there are certain experiences that I don’t have either like, even when I was talking to this expert, she’s working on a book as well, is that she wants to talk more about like young adults, like learning independence skills. And I’m like, Well, I am a young adult on the spectrum who has some independent skills. So you hope at this point in my life, you would help you would help. But there are certain things as I learned today when talking to her that I learned a lot from because I didn’t have all those skills, or I didn’t think about those skills as skills that you learn. So I did learn something. And I also learned about how different issues affect autistic people too. So it was pretty It was pretty exciting for me. Well, now
LB:
when I do an episode to learn a lot from our
HM:
guest here today, absolutely. So I guess without any further ado, we should get started and we should introduce our wonderful listeners to somebody really, really cool. And all of us will get to learn something new today, too. Are you ready?
LB:
I’m ready.
HM:
So today our guest is kin hang. Kim is an adult autism and mental health self advocate. Kim was diagnosed with Asperger’s in her 40s. Although she has struggled with major depression since her early teens, she wasn’t diagnosed until her 30s. She’s an active Special Olympics athlete and global messenger. Kim currently teaches second graders in an after school program. Welcome to the show.
KIM HING (KH):
Thanks. I’m really excited to be here today.
HM:
We’re excited to have you too. So our listeners can learn a little bit more to can you share with us how you became involved in the autism community?
KH:
Well, it started because I was really been really struggling my entire life with all kinds of things that are because I’m autistic, but I didn’t know it. And so yeah, I got diagnosed in my 40s. And that just made things be really makes start to make sense for me about why I struggled so much. And then I got involved with Special Olympics. And now I’m a different brains inter.
LB:
Can you tell us about how you started with the Special Olympics?
KH:
Yeah, I had a friend who was doing Special Olympics. And she said, Come Come join the basketball. And I’m like, Can I do that? And she’s like, Yeah, you can. So I started off in Special Olympics on the basketball team. And on our second practice, I promptly broke my ankle. So that that was not much of a season for me. I sat on the sidelines the entire time. For the basketball season, and so our team did go to the championships. I don’t know if that was because I wasn’t playing on it. Because I’m a very beginner and just learning the skills. That’s how I started with Special Olympics. And then I just got more involved in trying more in more sports. I learned about bocce, I had never heard about bocce, and I found that I really liked bocce. And then I did bowling and floor hockey and tried basketball again, and tried soccer. I did track and field and just really have been exploring all the different sports that I really had a ball of version when I was growing up, because balls in me just did not get along.
HM:
Meaning that I had never been an athlete before. So this is absolutely fascinating and exciting to me.
KH:
What’s really great about Special Olympics is it doesn’t matter what your skill level is, because we have some super, super skilled athletes. And then we have athletes that are just learning the sports. And it’s all done by division. So the super skilled athletes are in their division. And then those who are learning the skills are in a different division. So you’re you’re competing and playing with people that are the level that you’re at. And nobody makes fun of you or anything like that. If you’re not, if you’re having difficulties, everyone just encourage each other and helps you learn how to play and the skills involved in one of the really wonderful things about Special Olympics is no one is left on the sidelines unless you break your ankle. Because…
HM:
That makes sense. In that case, I would hope that they helped you get medical attention.
KH:
Well, I did go to the doctor the next day and they took an X ray and I found out it was broken. But But yeah, every one of the rules of Special Olympics is everyone plays. So yeah, everybody in competitions every everybody plays. So it’s it’s a lot of fun.
LB:
How often do you train for?
KH:
Is it a year round thing where you’re training? They have sports year round and we have different seasons. So yeah, there’s basketball is in the winter. And then after basketball, there’s three sports there is swimming, tennis and track and field. Oh, and Bochy, as well. And then in the summer, they’re softball and then in the fall, there’s bowling and soccer and then after that is floor hockey. Of course it depends on where you live because some some areas have other sports and other areas don’t have those sports. I hear that on the east coast. They actually have a question and sailing, which is well,
HM:
I believe Special Olympics Florida has kayaking or some are paddleboarding. I think it might have been paddleboarding because I tried to get involved with Special Olympics A while ago and they mentioned like, Oh, we have had some kind of watersport I think it might have been paddleboarding. I’m not 100% sure. But I just remember thinking, oh my god, that sounds so cool. But also I’m scared
KH:
That they provide all the equipment to so you could go ahead and try it. And I’m sure they have lifeguards. They will rescue you if you fall off maybe. Or maybe they’ll just wait to see if you can get back up on your board on your own. I don’t know, we don’t have paddle boarding.
HM:
Can I also ask what Bochy is because I don’t I’ve heard of it, but I don’t quite know what it is. And I think I might not be the only one who secretly wondering the answer to that question.
KH:
Okay. Bocce is a, you have balls. Yeah, there goes my ball version. But there’s a little ball called a pallino and it’s like the size of a golf ball. And that gets thrown out first. And then you have these big balls that are the size of softballs. And you throw those balls out, and you try and get them as close to that little ball as possible. But if another team’s ball is really close, you can take your ball and try to hit their ball out of the way, and then whoever’s ball is closest to the pallino. That team gets to have all their balls that are closer to the pallino than the other teams. And that gets part of your score. And so then there’s certain amount of rounds, depending on how much time is is there is so it’s like time based. I don’t know how much time it is maybe 20 minutes, and then the team with the most points wins. That is really cool.
HM:
So I guess my next question is about Special Olympics as well is you what is a — you’re a global messenger and what is a global messenger and what led you to become one
KH:
A global messenger is an athlete leader, and I went to a training, they they teach you how to be a speaker for Special Olympics. And as a speaker, I can go to Talk to schools about inclusion and getting students without disabilities interested in playing sports with students that have disabilities on the unified teams, which are teams that have disabled people and non disabled people play together. And also I could go to talk to say rotary clubs to encourage them to volunteer their time for Special Olympics, I could talk to companies to encourage them to donate money or incline services and to also volunteer. And then I just did something that was so cool. And the first time I’ve ever done it is last week, we had Capitol Hill day, and that meant we were lobbying Congress to support Special Olympics with funding.
LB:
Wow, can you tell us a bit about what about what that experience was like?
KH:
It was virtual this year. Ordinarily, people go to actual Congress and meet with representatives and senators and staff people to try and get their support. What is amazing is Special Olympics is nonpartisan, and has strong support for both Republicans and Democrats. I not sure. But I think it may be one of the very few bipartisan things that Congress helps. And so because it was virtual, a lot more athletes were able to participate. And we were able to talk to probably a lot more people in Congress, usually in our area, only one person, one athlete can go. But because it was virtual, more of us could go because we then have to pay the expenses of sending somebody to Washington, DC. So we had training in different different things. So the different things we were supposed to talk about to encourage for the funding, and then also how to how to do a zoom meeting with the with a representative. So I, I talked to staff, people, from congressional members in the House of Representatives from California, and we were looking for funding for two things, which is the Healthy Athletes program and the jam, unified champion Schools program. And they were all very, very supportive. And I believe we probably should, we should get the funding that we were asking for, which is exciting.
LB:
Wow! Were you nervous and these meetings and preparing for them? Were you
KH:
I was not nervous while preparing for them. The first day for the first, for the first meeting, I was a little nervous. But then after that, it was fine after the first meeting that I knew what to expect. And so it was okay.
LB:
Did they did they say whether or not they think in the future, even after the pandemic, that they’ll do more of the the zoom meetings? Because it seems like it’s more you get more accessibility, like you talked about to be able to lobby for your things do they say in the future, they’ll they’re they’re thinking about continuing this where so they reduce the expenses of traveling there.
KH:
have the impression that they’ll go back to in person, many people were expressing they can’t wait to go to DC once the pandemic is over.
LB:
Interesting. Would you go to DC?
KH:
If I got chosen Sure. in a heartbeat.
LB:
That’s excellent.
HM:
That is so cool. So you mentioned earlier that you’re actually an intern for different brands. And for those of you who may or may not be aware of this, and I’m sure that if you’ve listened to an episode of spectrally before you do know this, but our show is produced by the folks at different brands, and we’re very lucky to have them and Kim is one of their interns. So can you tell us a little bit about your experience and what you do as a different brands intern as well.
KH:
I found out about different brands because Dr. Hackie Reitman was a speaker at the Stanford Neurodiversity Project. What was it? I forget what it was called. Um, it was a summit where they brought in speakers from all all different types of speakers, about neuro diversity. And he was one of the speakers. I thought he was outstanding. And he talked about different brains. And I thought I got to, I got to get on that I got to become an intern from that I was I was really excited about the things that different brains do. does. So I contacted Different Brains, and they let me be an intern. I’m learning a lot. I’m right now I’m on the grant committee. So I’m learning a lot about grants and what’s involved I’m hoping that I’ll be able to help out editing one of the books that Different Brains is working on. I’m going to be learning editing for podcasts and different videos. So yeah, I’m doing a lot with different brains, I could do a lot more, but you’d have to manage your other outside special outside Different Brains, activities and work.
HM:
That makes a lot of sense. It sounds like you are a very busy person.
KH:
Yes, I am. I think
LB:
I don’t know what more you could do. It sounds like you’ve done everything at Different Brains.
KH:
I know there’s less I could get involved with the research committee or the special events committee or there’s there’s all kinds of things going on with Different Brains. Yes, it sounds like you’re really busy to both of you. I mean, I think I just have fun an attorney, and you’re an attorney and artists and an author. So everybody’s busy.
LB:
Good point Kim. Good point.
HM:
I think it’s a great point. Since we’re all apparently busy. It’s a great time to talk for our segment about what about Special Olympics? Oh, we already discovered that Special Olympics is really, really cool. We learned a lot from Kim about that. In our in our interview section. And in our site, we’re also we talked about why the sports and camaraderie they allow can be really good for us psychologically. So everyone is welcome to jump in whenever they want. So I happen to think Special Olympics is really cool. The first time that I got involved in Special Olympics, Florida had an athlete recognition dinner for their athlete leaders. And I got to present one of the athletes with an award. I had a great time it was all the big corporate people at this dinner pretty much it was a big Gala. It was so much fun. And then every time it’s like, Do you want to come help our youth leaders? And I was like, Yeah, I want to do stuff. But I’m not an athlete. And I’m scared about that. And then the more time that’s gone by and the more that I’ve learned about Special Olympics in the more that Kim taught us, like, oh, it doesn’t matter that I’m like, not very good at sports. And I guess I always shied away from Sports because I was never athletic. And my athletic career personally ended when I was maybe six. So a fun story is I used to ride horses. And I know this isn’t something I usually talk a lot about. But I was doing hypnotherapy, I did shows I was actually kind of good at horseback riding apparently. So I did shows and all that stuff. And I was training and the horse got spooked. I think there was like a car that drove by or something happened. And in the process of like getting thrown off, I my arm got caught in the rain. And that was and I broke my arm and had emergency surgery and I was too scared to ever get back on.
KH:
You’re supposed to get right back on after you fall off.
HM:
I was six years old, I was out of my mind.
LB:
But Kim’s right, that is the saying that
HM:
is the saying, but what are your six and you just go through an emergency surgery and then you’re having physical therapy and all this stuff? Because it’s just like, oh my god, you’re like, yeah, maybe not.
KH:
Okay, well, now you’re an adult and maybe you can try again.
HM:
I think it’s been about 20 years now. So maybe it is coming up the time to try again.
LB:
Yeah, I think so.
HM:
Did I ever tell you about when I tried out for the rowing team and I was in high school?
LB:
No.
HM:
So they had like a summer training camp for the rowing team. And I signed up for training camp, cuz I’m like, I should probably do a sport. That’s like the good thing to do. And you’re in high school. Like everyone joins a sport. That’s how I’m going to make friends. And like, you know, like, okay, so I go to the summer training camp, they teach you like how to like strength train, you use like the erg to like build your upper body strength, because Contrary to popular belief, I think it’s a lot of leg strength and upper body strength that you need, like rowing, you get in really good shape, oh my god. And the first day on the water, they hand us the oars, they put us in the boats and everything. And you know, this is South Florida. And it is the middle of the summer. And it is really, really hot out. So we get past our first day on the water and I passed out. So that was kind of I passed out. Oh my God got back to when we got back to like the boathouse. And that was kind of the end of my athletic career.
KH:
Well, you did not join the team. You could join Special Olympics and choose one of these wonderful sports. they’ll teach you how UN Special Olympics, you know, everybody helps each other. So you could definitely join Special Olympics. Haley,
HM:
I think I should and I think what I really like about Special Olympics, and what you’ve been telling me is how everybody cheered each other on so I always thought of sports as just being super super competitive, and everyone’s kind of in it for themselves in their team.
KH:
But they are competitive. Everybody wants a gold medal. Don’t don’t…
HM:
Of course, we was cheering each other on. It’s awful. Yeah. That’s great.
KH:
When when somebody when another team is playing, we go and watch that other teams playing. So yeah, and I ended you even make friends with people. I’m friends with a guy named Willie. And he’s from San Francisco. And whenever we are like that Summer Games, we look for each other. Well, I don’t always get picked to go to summer games. But when I do get to go, we look for each other or at the bocce tournament, we look for each other, or track and field. He’s, he’s this, really, um, he’s nonverbal, or very little verbal, but it doesn’t matter. We’re like, hey, Willie, that’s what I do. Hey, Willie, and he’s like, he like, oh, and he like waves. And it doesn’t matter that he doesn’t speak much, we still can communicate and have a great time. So you can make friends with people from all over the place. Right now we’re have virtual programming. Because of the pandemic, we can’t have sports in person. And one of the directors of our board, he’s actually the vice chair of the board. He started a Wednesday evening zoom call for athletes to keep us all connected. And what happens is a coach will interview an athlete, and we get to know that athlete more, or an athlete interviews a coach or a staff member. And so we get to learn more about the coach and the staff member. And it started off that this was for the athletes just in like our county, but any any athlete can join. And so now, athletes from all over northern California are in that call. So I’ve met and made friends with athletes that I never would have known before. Because because of it. So it’s a wonderful opportunity. And and growing up, you know, I didn’t have friends. And now with Special Olympics, I’ve made friends with coaches and staff. So it’s it’s just an awesome experience.
HM:
Dr. Butts I think we could be referees, because isn’t that kind of like what judges and lawyers do anyway?
LB:
That’s a good point.
HM:
We could be refs!
KH:
You can be refs, you can take a training and you can ref basketball or be an arm for softball or be a ref for floor hockey. So if you want to do that you could Dr. Butts, do you play a sport? You could be a coach, even if you don’t know much about the sport, they have training too for coaches.
LB:
Interesting. I grew up playing soccer and I was gonna say, you know, I, I still, you know, I’m old. And I still
KH:
No, no, no, no, I’m looking at your picture here. And you have very youthful.
LB:
Thank you. But I still I mean, we when I’m with my girlfriends, and I still have since we played you know, soccer as little kids. We still talk about our times at soccer, and we were on a travel team and, and those are some really of the best memories I have. From my childhood. I played three sports all through school, but soccer was my main sport. And, and to this day, you know, we remember our tournament’s we remember, have fun, you know, just, it’s just it bonds you for your lifetime. It really It really does.
KH:
We’d love to have you as a coach.
LB:
Thanks, Kim. Thanks. My I have a funny story about that. My mom was a marathon runner. She knew nothing about soccer. And my soccer team, the coach that had signed up had to drop out for some reason. And my mom was like, all coach and she I bought her a book, I was probably seven or eight and I bought my mom a coaching book for soccer. And she coached and we wind up being in the championship, but the championship was a day of her marathon. So literally, she ran a marathon and like ran to the field. And, and that was it. So that was another, you know, sporting memory of my life. So sports was so important.
KH:
Your mom is a superhuman after running… Yeah, I can’t run – I definitely could not run a marathon.
LB:
Yeah, she’s run several marathons. And actually, she’s almost 80 now and she got her second COVID vaccine shot. And the day after she’s she lives in Colorado, she went skiing, you know, everyone saying that they get sick and have fever, not my mom, she and her husband, both of them. They got their second vaccine shot and spent the whole next day skiing on the slope. So they’re pretty incredible.
KH:
Well that sounds like fun. I didn’t know skiing was was open because of the pandemic. Yes,
LB:
yes, it is. And they have you know, they, they try to they have social distancing and that kind of thing. But yeah, it’s open.
KH:
Well, that’s great. I like skiing. We used to have snow sports, but we don’t have enough funding in our area to have snow sports. So we haven’t had them in years. And yeah, it’s I’d really like to have enough funding so that we could have them again.
HM:
That’s why you’re lobbying hopefully that we can get get y’all more money to have Snowsports.
KH:
Yeah, well, actually The funding is for Healthy Athletes and unified champion Schools program. So it isn’t actually for doing the sports. Healthy Athletes is this way, way cool program where they provide some health screenings for athletes. So for instance, I got my eyes tested and they gave me prescription sports goggles and new glasses. The dental program gave me a mouthguard podiatrist, looked at my feet physical therapist checked my flexibility and gave me stretches to do to improve it. And I got all that for free. Wow, hearing screenings, which I haven’t had yet, but I believe they’ll even help you get hearing aids if you need them. So that’s the Healthy Athletes program. And a lot of a lot of intellectually disabled people don’t get the health care that they need. It’s just not they. Some athletes have difficulty communicating. And so people just don’t realize that this person is in pain, they might have abscesses in their teeth, or they could have something going on there. Maybe they do have a hearing, you know, problem, and they just can’t hear and their care providers just think they’re being stubborn. So these Healthy Athletes screens are really important.
LB:
Really important. Wow, that’s so wonderful.
KH:
And then the unified champion Schools Program is is all about connecting general ed students with a special ed students that I think generalist students really need to learn more about special ed students, it helps dispel the stereotypes and original perceptions that they probably have. And everybody likes to play sports. So it’s a good way that they can learn about each other and then become friends. Also, it really helps like 90% of the teacher liaisons feel that it reduces bullying, teasing and use of offensive language in the whole school. And 97% of them said that the program creates a more socially inclusive school environment. And that is just so awesome that I wish that had been around when when I was in school.
LB:
Yeah, that’s really awesome. That’s so amazing. Wow,
KH:
they also have part of the unified champion Schools Program is and they have these clubs, leadership clubs. So even if you, let’s say, you’re not going to participate in sports, you could get involved with the in the club. And they have leadership opportunities for both the special ed students and the general ed students in the club. And they they put on all kinds of events during the school dances, rallies, they’ll have an inclusion week, and each day, they’ll have different activities planned out for it. So it’s really for getting everybody in the whole school involved.
HM:
I think that’s really powerful is that we’re really just moving towards this place of inclusion, and I’m glad to see it in sports and in schools, and it starts young, I feel like it’s starting younger and younger, which is great. And it just makes me happy to see.
LB:
It’s a really great movement, because like Kim said, you know, unfortunately, it wasn’t around before and the more we can, we can model inclusivity for the kids and the less bullying and the more people feel accepted, the better their self esteem is and the more you know, risk they’re willing to take and and try more things out. And it just it just builds on itself so that people can be healthier and happier and have more fulfilled lives.
KH:
And because they’re learning these things when they’re kids and and young, young people, teenagers, well, they’re going to become adults, and then hopefully as adults will become a more inclusive society.
HM:
Absolutely, and I think that’s the perfect note to wrap up this discussion on is this note of that. We are going towards a more inclusive society and sports and things that build community in schools at young ages and at all ages and even realizing what you’ve been saying is even as adults were able to get involved in sports either as a Special Olympics athletes or we could be coaches or even for Dr. Butts and I. We could be referees if we felt so inclined.
KH:
Oh no athlete, athlete, athlete,
HM:
I’m gonna try it. You know, I feel inspired. I think I might have tried to be an athlete but if I realized that being an athlete still isn’t something I’m exactly great at or I don’t feel very encouraged because I don’t I’m just not a good athlete…
KH:
No, we have divisions we have…
HM:
Ok I’ll learn
LB:
Kim’s not letting you get away with anything.
HM:
She’s not gonna let me be a ref. So I guess I will have to find a sport and perhaps I will have to go paddleboarding because they think that’s an offering, I think.
Bocce, try bocce. It can can be indoors in air conditioning probably in Florida.
HM:
Oh, that’s even better. Yep. So, I guess if if we do, if we do convince me to and hold me accountable when things are safer that we can go play bocce, then I’m sure we will have you back and we will have a long discussion about Haley’s Adventures of Bocce.
KH:
Okay, that sounds good. Or Haley, you could even do track and field because, because because because you could do the standing long jump, or the softball throw, you could do the 100 yard run. Or if you’d rather walk, you could do the 400 walk or the 800. So I do the 800 and the mile walk, so yeah, you could even walk if you want…
HM:
Oh my God, that’s awesome. Okay, yep, I’m sold. I will walk.
LB:
Alright, can you can you drive a hard bargain over here. You’re good.
KH:
You’re gonna be the soccer coach.
HM:
See? See, I’m not the only one who has to do something Kim is riding us. Kim is the best accountability buddy I think I could ever ask for
LB:
I No wonder these. These house of representatives were so willing to give money. Look at
HM:
them. Look at Kim. She got both of us involved in about like 20 minutes.
LB:
She does not take no for an answer. That’s for sure. I love it. I love it too. Kim, I love your enthusiasm. It’s awesome. It’s really yeah…
KH:
I’m stubborn so…
HM:
Your enthusiasm is contagious. And I think that you may you may end up inspiring somebody else to sign up. So how can we learn more about you or get in touch with you or just find out more about what you’re up to as well?
KH:
You can find out more about me. Um, let’s see, how can you find out more about I don’t think you can find out more about me. I’m not I don’t have a internet presence…
HM:
Through our friends at Different Brains?
KH:
Yeah, you could contact Different Brains, I guess.
HM:
Perfect. So I think we had a really, really lively and exciting discussion. And Kim has motivated us, I hope she has motivated you or gotten you nearly as excited about inclusion and sports and other cool things as much as Dr. Butts and I have been. And be sure to check out different brands.org and check out their Twitter and Instagram @DiffBrains. And don’t forget to look for them on Facebook.
HM:
If you’re looking for me, I can be found @Haleymossart on all major social media or you could visit me at my website Haleymoss.net.
LB:
I can be found at CSIexperts.com please be sure to subscribe and rate us on iTunes and don’t hesitate to send questions to spectrumlyspeaking@gmail.com. Let’s keep the conversation going.
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
