Neurodiversity and Storytelling, with Eva Grayzel | EDB 271

Master storyteller and author Eva Grayzel discusses how sharing stories helps people connect and succeed.

(VIDEO – 25 mins) Eva Grayzel is a master storyteller, author, performance artist, and cancer survivor. Eva explores the intersection of hope, healing and giving back, while telling compelling tales about facing death and living on to change the lives of countless others. An expert on interactive storytelling techniques with thirty years’ experience, Eva Grayzel brings new business strategies to life through the power of story. Eva is also the author and founder of the Talk4Hope Family Book Series.

To find out more about Eva’s work, visit: evagrayzel.com

For information about Eva’s Six Step Screening for oral cancer: sixstepscreening.org

For more about the Talk4Hope Family Book Series: evagrayzel.com/talk4hope 

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FULL TRANSCRIPTION

DR HACKIE REITMAN (HR):  

I’m Dr. Hackie Reitman. Welcome to another episode of Exploring Different Brains. And today we have someone joining us who’s one of the world’s greatest speakers. I saw Eva Grayzel speak out in Chicago, and she’s on such a mission. I’m going to have her tell you about it. I’m not going to. I’m just going to say that this is a master storyteller. Eva Grayzel, welcome to Different Brains.

EVA GRAYZEL (EG):  

Thank you Hackie. You know, I never went to school thinking I’m going to be a storyteller. I actually per pursued a career as an actress after I graduated from college thinking, if I’m ever going to be an actress, I should do it then. And I ended up getting a job as an after school teacher in a religious school. And they wanted someone dramatic, and I thought, not so into religion. But I am dramatic, and I can tell a good story. So I took those Bible stories. And I made them engaging and interactive, and I tried techniques, and I developed interactive storytelling. And I think one of the reasons why Hackie is because I had such a hard time learning in the traditional way, I needed a more visual way of learning. And so this technique came to me. And I started making all the stories interactive. And I think that it’s a great technique for parents and educators of neurodivergent people.

HR:  

Absolutely. And I think the key word is “interactive”, you know, because I know how you engage the audience, because I was there firsthand. What is your favorite topic to storyteller about?

EG:  

My favorite topic is what you want to teach, what you want to learn. So when you tell a story, Hackie if you’re telling it to your grandchildren, or you’re telling it to a friend, the idea is: Your stories are really valuable because they they helped me know you better, and it develops relationships and it, it deepens you know, a rapport with another person, whether it’s a parent or child, or teacher, child, whatever they are friends, if you’re looking for donors, I mean, whatever it is, when you tell a story, a personal story. You develop a relationship that, that you can’t do by just listing I did this, I was really good at that.

HR:  

What has your experience been in the role storytelling can play in helping young people, especially those of us who are neurodivergent, in terms of development?

EG:  

I believe that you can take any story, it could be a personal story, it could be a story that you know, well, like Cinderella, or it could be a story you’re reading from a book. What I like to do is create the illustrations with the child or children you’re telling the story to. I mean, I’m assuming this is children, if it’s adults, we’re talking something different. But for right now, it’s telling a story, creating the illustrations all together. So once you read the page, then you put it in your own words and you dialogue, and pretend you’re both the characters. And the beauty of that is that you as the teacher or the parent, can instill what you want to teach to that particular child or children. If you’re teaching about bullying, if you’re teaching about being responsible, if you’re teaching about speaking up for yourself, whatever it is, you want to continually repeat that message in the story. And so yeah, you got to ad lib a little bit. But it makes it really creative, fun, spontaneous. And it’s such a brilliant way to learn.

HR:  

Very well said. What advice would you have, for instance, some of our interns who are neurodivergent, who are all over 18, all smarter than me. We have one in law school, one in med school, they’re all over the map. Someone who might be interested in becoming a storyteller, what advice would you have for them?

EG:  

Well, I would say start by joining a Toastmasters or a local storytelling guild, you can look them up online, there’s a national storytelling Association, getting involved and start to hear people tell their stories and start to tell your own stories. I mean, in the workplace, for example, for neurodivergent people in the workplace, it’s really important to be able to share your story to others, so that they understand you. So that when you have a particular behavior, or response to a situation, they get you. But until you share that personal story, that that relationship hasn’t been built. And it goes both ways. You know, you don’t have to be neurodivergent, you could have an incredibly stressful home life, to be able to not react in an ideal way in the workplace. So it’s important to share your stories with your team of people that you work with. So that when incidents has happened, people are more compassionate. They know how to cope, and they get it because they get you.

HR:  

Could you speak a little bit about your battle with oral cancer, and what led you to develop the Six Step Screening?

EG:  

So that’s the other hat I wear. I was a professional storyteller. And at the height of my career, I was performing all over the country, doing educator workshops on interactive storytelling techniques. And then I had a sore on my tongue and it didn’t go away. The doctors treated me for trauma told me I was biting my tongue. I talked too much my teeth are sharp. By the time I was eight, I had a biopsy that was misread. Unfortunately, by the time I was diagnosed, I was stage four. I didn’t know if I’d ever speak again, articulately. And when I did go through all the treatment, I recognized that my story needs to be heard, to raise awareness and to save lives. And that’s the story you heard in Chicago. I told a very personal story. And the beauty of that is I’m not telling doctors, you should do this, you should do that. I tell my story. And through that they feel in their own gut. They could be raising the bar on educating patients on communicating better with patients about the value of services they provide. And then certainly if something bad happens, they remain engaged with a patient in a comfortable way.

HR:  

Could you please go through with us briefly the six steps, because you don’t have to be a doctor really to do it…

EG:  

It’s really designed for for everybody. It’s it was designed because I knew what should have been done and what wasn’t done properly. So I wanted to educate the general public about what they should be getting when they go to the dentist. And it’s a six step screening. And in short, they should do an intro oral exam, there are four steps where they yank your tongue out. They look at all the lateral borders, they feel your lips and your cheeks. They look at the floor of your mouth and the roof of your mouth. And then the last two steps are for the oral pharynx. This is required by the ADA, the American Dental Association, that they should be palpating your neck along the sternocleidomastoid muscle. And they should be asking you to go ah to look at the back of your throat because the tonsils are a place where the HPV virus loves to hang out. And HPV is the epidemic rise that’s happening with this oropharyngeal cancers.

HR:  

Well, sure is.

EG:  

So if you want to learn more, go to sixstepscreening.org.

HR:  

Say that again for our audience

EG:  

Sixstepscreaming.org.

HR:  

All right. Now are you finding resistance in the dental and the endodontic and the periodontist profession to doing a six step?

EG:  

Yeah. Well, it’s interesting there are the older people in the in the industry that really didn’t learn much about oral cancer in dental school, and they feel uncomfortable doing the screening however, they need to take continuing education classes they need to get up to up to speed on it because you know, hygenist and dentists are really the first line of defense in catch sickness disease early. I mean, I was diagnosed late, and treatment is barbaric. And it is devastating. You can lose everything you live for your ability to speak, swallow normally to eat. And when you lose these things, you lose your social life, you could lose your job, you could lose your friends, and your life gets stolen from under you. That’s why I’m such an advocate for early diagnosis and diagnosis. And it’s so easy. I mean, hacky. Literally, we could be screening ourselves. And if patients are simply educated about the signs and symptoms, they could be going to the dentist and say, Hey, I’ve got this thing here, can you look at it. And if a dentist is uncomfortable, they can refer. But my beef is we got to get the patients involved.

HR:  

What kind of doctor — I say I’m a dentist, and which I’m not, I’m an orthopedic surgeon, but say I’m a dentist, and I palpate some and I’m not sure if there’s something going on what is the doctor I then refer the patient to?

EG:  

If you feel something in their neck, you want to refer to an EMT, and not any your nose and throat doctor, you want to go to one that has experience with oral cancer, the idea is rule out cancer and then go treat it polyps whatever for whatever else to rule out cancer. So in e and t if there’s anything that you feel in their neck or throat, and if you see anything in the oral cavity that’s in the purview of an oral surgeon.

HR:  

Oral surgeon, so the oral surgeon is the guy and an ENT if it’s over here, okay, that’s pretty explanatory.

EG:  

Simply hackie, if you’re shaving, and you feel a lump here, and you say that’s weird, but it doesn’t hurt me, I’m not gonna worry about it. Actually, it’s those little nodes in your neck that don’t hurt. And that are hard and fixed. You think it may be a follicle or a sebaceous cyst or something? Those are the ones that don’t hurt, that needs to be evaluated by a professional.

HR:  

What is your favorite story as a professional storyteller, to tell? 

EG:  

Can I tell it? 

HR:  

How long does it take?

EG:  

Two minutes. Come on.

HR:  

Let’s go. Let’s go Eva.

EG:  

This is a story about a young man who gave up his life to save someone else. And when he went to the world beyond, he was asked whether he wanted to reside in the place up above, or the place down below. And this young guy said, hey, I want to see both places before I make my decision. And first he went up above. And there he saw this big pot of sweet smelling bubbling soup in the center of the space. And there were people sitting all around and everybody had a long handled spoon long enough to reach the soup. When he looked at the people. Oops, he first went, when he looked at the people, they were smiling, they were full, they were robust. Then he went down below, he saw the same thing, a big part of sweet smelling bubbling soup and people all around with a long handled spoon long enough to reach the soup. But when he looked at the people down below, they were sick pages miserable. He wondered why the difference when both places have the exact same thing. Down below, the people were trying to feed themselves. The handles of the spoons were so long that by the time they got the soup, the soup could never reach their own mouths. Up above. He saw the people didn’t even try to feed themselves. They only fed each other. And when this young man was asked again, whether he wanted to reside up above or down below, where do you think he chose? The original version of this story says that he chose to live up above above because he deserves to be in a good place. But I believe he chose to live down below because there he could make a difference. And so can we.

HR:  

Very beautiful story. You’re amazing. You’re great.

EG:  

I think I did that in under a minute. 

HR:  

Yeah, you were good. It was close. How can people learn more about you?

EG:  

On my website evagrayzel.com. Follow me on Instagram, Facebook. I post all kinds of I don’t put stuff. That’s not interesting. I post stuff that I’m learning. I post information about life and also a lot of inspirational things. Oh, great. Because you planned my funeral, I didn’t think I’d make it. And now, I really try to find joy in every day. And I love to help other people do that and inspire people. And then as the storytelling hat, I love to help people develop a better story, to develop relationships.

HR:  

What have you found to be — in your opinion the biggest mistake, people who want to tell a good story, the biggest mistake that they make?

EG:  

the biggest mistake is that they think you’re telling the story, and they’re not telling the story. They think I’ve, I’ve been the head of this, I worked in on this committee, I won this award. That’s not a story that’s a list. Most bios, Hackie, that you read, or lists, they say where you went to school, they might say where you go to church and how many children you have. They do not tell a story. So when I read those bios, whether you’re a doctor, or you’re a landscaper, when I read that all I think of I don’t know the kind of person you are, because it doesn’t tell me a story. I want to find out what inspired you to do what you do. Why do you do it? Who inspired you? What’s the wisdom you learned? From going through your challenge in life? And how can I learn from you? That’s where I want to read more about you know more about you be your friend, I want to use your services, it’s because I feel a connection. And that’s what stories do.

HR:  

Good stuff. Have you written many screenplays?

EG:  

No, screenplays Hackie, I’m working on some online courses. I’ve published two children’s books to help children understand cancer and make it less scary because my children were five and seven at the time, and it’s a traumatic experience to watch a parent goes through cancer. And the fears were never addressed. And their feelings were covered up. So I’m an advocate for speaking to children and how important it is to allow them to air what it is they’re feeling. Because whatever they’re feeling, it’s normal. And it’s okay. And if we never asked, we’ll never know. So those two books really help parents and educators and, and family members, talk to children about how they’re feeling. And then I’ve also published a story legacy. It’s a 12 page guide to help people tell their stories for future generations. Asking questions that you know, you don’t always think about it really generates the questions, generate the stories, and you don’t have to answer all of them. But I’ll tell you, if you fill out the booklet, whoever needs to write a eulogy about you, when it is your turn to go, it would be so easy for them because they’ll know the most important things about you and your life.

HR:  

Interesting. You know, as one who, you know, I wrote the “Aspertools” book, but I also wrote produced and directed a full length motion picture “The Square Root of Two” starring Darby Stanchfield, from “Scandal”. And it was inspired by a true story, but it was fictional. I think you want to try that? Because I’ll tell you why. One of the things that caught my ear was very similar to what one of my mentors told me when I was I was struggling with this other screenplay I wrote that never went anywhere. And he said to me, this is a guy who did 35 motion pictures and stuff. He says, you know, your problem is I said, What straighten me out? He goes, You think you’re telling a story? And I said, Well, aren’t I? He said, No. You’re writing a book, then you’re telling a story. When you make a movie, you’re making a series of scenes that tell a story. And it clicked with me. Because when you make a screenplay, well you got to do is come up with 50 scenes, you know, and if you are going to write a screenplay of your life If you’re a master storyteller, you would just pick the top scenes. I’m just making this up, the day I got diagnosed, right first surgery, my first speaking, engagement, whatever. And then you just jot them down. Because I saw this in your notes on how to tell a story. And the way you describe the outline and everything. And I think with the gifts that you have, and all of your expertise, you owe it to the greater world. Right, a movie, and you can do it. And then if you ever decide to make the movie yourself, which is a great experience, but it’s 18 hours a day for months and months. But when you get get done with it, it’s a it’s a story. And it’s you’re not telling it, you’re showing it, and you’ve got a series of scenes. 

EG:  

That’s right Hackie, do you remember when you were in kindergarten, and you had show Intel, and the kid would bring an object and it wasn’t the object, you could see the relationship or the story that went along with the object. So it’s not the words he shared, you could actually feel what he felt, or the kid felt that was the beauty of show Intel. And the a really great story is one in which the listener or viewer sees themself in it.

HR:  

Brilliant. 

EG:  

So you’re not like telling them how to feel or telling them what you’re doing. You’re telling this story, and they see, it’s like they see themselves in that movie. They relate to it. And that’s the beauty of storytelling. It’s that relationship.

HR:  

What are some of the other educational stuff that is accessible to people with you teaching storytelling lessons?

EG:  

Well, I’ve got to develop the programs right now. It’s mostly I get hired privately by schools are organizations. Like right now I’m talking with a healthcare organization, they want to develop storytelling, for patient communication with health care providers. I work with businesses in team building through storytelling, and of course, in the field of education. Next month, I’ll be a keynote speaker for an organization and international group that teaches English as a second language. So teaching stories is more or less the same. It’s just tailoring it specifically to the audience. And that’s easy to do for me.

HR:  

The last thing I want to ask you is: what is the one single thing about storytelling, you would like our audience to remember?

EG:  

I would say there’s no motion without emotion. In other words, I can’t travel with you anywhere in your story. Unless you reveal some emotion, how it made you feel. If you can’t get to that spot, the story really lacks any kind of, of meat. So the meat of the story is in emotions.

HR:  

Very well said Eva Grayzel. Thank you so much for spending time with us. And keep up all the great storytelling you do and inspiration as a cancer survivor. You make people feel that they have the potential which they do. If they follow your lead. They can become storytellers, also. Thank you so much.

EG:  

Thank you, hecky Bye. Great to see you.