Overcoming Barriers to Therapy Access, with Dr. Jennie Trocchio | Spectrumly Speaking ep. 138
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IN THIS EPISODE:
In this episode, hosts Haley Moss and Dr. Lori Butts welcome back Dr. Jennie Trocchio. Dr. Jennie is an autism educator, DIR/Floortime provider, and consultant with extensive experience supporting, evaluating, and creating programs for individuals on the Autism Spectrum. She is also the Vice President of Clinical Operations at Positive Development. Positive Development’s mission is to “…help people with autism and other developmental differences build connections and shape their futures.” Positive Development follows the Developmental Relationship-Based Intervention (DRBI) model.
For more about Positive Development:
https://www.positivedevelopment.com/
And look for them on the social media at:
https://twitter.com/PositiveDev
https://www.linkedin.com/company/positive-development-inc/
https://www.instagram.com/positivedevelopmenttherapy/
https://www.facebook.com/positivedevelopmenttherapy/
—————–
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
For more about Haley, check out her website: haleymoss.net And look for her on Twitter: twitter.com/haleymossart For more about Dr. Butts, check out her website: cfiexperts.com
Have a question or story for us? E-mail us at SpectrumlySpeaking@gmail.com
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:
HALEY MOSS (HM):
Hello friends, and welcome back to SpectrumlySpeaking. I’m Haley Moss and author, artist attorney and I’m autistic and sharing the great Spectrumly. Stage today is the one the only the additional second host here. Drumroll everybody, maybe not…
DR LORI BUTTS (LB):
I’m Dr. Laurie Butts. I’m a psychologist and an attorney.
HM:
I think we need to discover sound effects for the future. Yeah,
LB:
that would be like a really high tech thing we could do.
HM:
I know I’ve never really been that high tech of a person contrary to every autism stereotype about being a high tech. I’ve tried though. The best of my ability. [Bark heard in background] Oh, do I hear dogs?
LB:
Sorry, that was me. Let me grab them.
HM:
Dogs are welcome here. We’ve been through this. We like dogs. Contrary to popular belief, our guest today is actually not going to be of the four legged variety.
JENNIE TROCCHIO (JT):
No, but I do have one so I thoroughly can relate to dogs barking in the middle of when they absolutely should not be barking. So that’s right up my alley.
HM:
Yeah, see, my general rule of thumb is usually when I get on meetings and stuff. Whenever we have four legged guests, I always demand to see them that I do not care if they interrupt. I don’t care if they join. But if you do not introduce me, I will have a problem with it.
JT:
Have I ever introduced you to my dog, Haley?
HM:
I don’t think you have.
JT:
This needs to happen. This truly does. All right. Next time we’re on video together. I’m introducing you to buddy.
HM:
Yes, we need to be — I didn’t even know you had a dog. Wait, I didn’t know you have a dog. I just forgot about it.
JT:
Because I never formally introduced you.
HM:
Exactly. All dogs need to be introduced and then lock your butts as dogs. Dr. Butts, we were just saying that your that your dog is not the guests that we have in mind for today. Welcome four legged furry friends.
LB:
Sorry about that Dr. Jennie.
HM:
You’re not allowed to apologize for dogs. But we did say that we do have a fantastic show in store for you. And our guest today is not in fact of the four legged variety. Our guest today is actually a human… I know we’re in shock, right everybody? Well, most of our guests are humans, except when it’s just Dr. Butts and I have having a talk together. And we do the guest list thing. But we are welcoming back a friend of the show and previous guest Dr. Jennie Trocchio. And for those of you who may or may not recall, Jennie is an autism educator, dir, Floortime, provider, and consultant with extensive experience supporting evaluating and creating programs for individuals on the autism spectrum. She is also the Vice President of Clinical Operations at positive development, which she’s going to tell us all about. Welcome back to the show.
JT:
Yay. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to come back with you guys.
HM:
Absolutely. It’s always been a pleasure. And we haven’t had you back since March of 2020. It’s been a very long, two plus almost three years since then. So since it’s been a hot minute, since our listeners have gotten to hear from you. Can you give us an update on your practice and your work since you know, March of 2020?
JT:
Absolutely. And gosh, that feels like eons ago to imagine that, you know, the last time we chatted, we had no idea that the world was about to shut down is pretty. Pretty incredible. So So yeah, so the last time I was on, I had my private practice, which was autism education and development solutions. And, you know, just a little bit into the pandemic, I actually did a rebrand to just Dr Jennie. And then something else happened, which just felt like a bit of a magical gift, which is I connected with the team at Positive Development. And so since then I have fully transitioned to working full time with Positive Development. And it was just an incredible, incredible opportunity at a time when you know, there wasn’t a lot of happiness going on in the world. So it was it was a perfect timing for that.
LB:
And can you tell us about Positive Development?
JT:
Absolutely. So Positive Development offers comprehensive developmental therapy using a team based approach. So the last time I was on I think we talked a lot about developmental approaches and play based therapy and dir floor time. And, you know, I had a, I was very happy in private practice, you know, working with individual kids and families and schools. But what Positive Development’s doing is they’re taking that same model and implementing it as a team based approach. So we now have speech, OT mental health therapy, and also a role that we call developmental client coaches, which is essentially a play partner paraprofessional level. He goes into the child’s home, and helps implement the treatment plan with the child with the family. So basically, it’s able positive developments able to offer so much, then so much more than I ever could by myself in a way that also and here’s sort of a really exciting piece of it. That is covered by insurance. And that’s pretty huge, because to date, developmental therapy has never been covered by insurance.
HM:
That’s really exciting. And I know that’s something that we’ve also talked about, as well. And one of my biggest things is that families don’t often get choices, because oftentimes, the only thing that is covered by insurers is ABA or applied behavioral analysis. So would you mind sharing a little bit about how difficult maybe it’s been to get non ABA essentially covered by insurance and how Positive Development has actually been making that change happen? And I believe that change is happening, not just here in Florida.
JT:
You are exactly right. So actually, now we are in 13 Different states, which is hard to believe. And it’s so so exciting. But you know, what’s really interesting is two have our founding members, they were actually venture capitalists, and one of them had a son on the spectrum who, who use dir floor time, that was the approach that they use with their son. And he made significant progress. So as these two are working in their venture capitalist world, all of these ABA providers were coming up to them and asking for money, funds to help start their own clinics. And they started wondering, Well, gosh, why is no one coming to us and talking about developmental approaches? And it turns out, it’s because it’s not covered by insurance, which makes it really hard for families to access. So unless they had a whole lot of money and could pay for it out of pocket, it just wasn’t possible for most families. And they started saying, well, this isn’t right. And they started really looking into how can we get it covered by insurance. And the answer ended up being one insurance provider at a time. And the first one that they — the first contract that they got was actually Florida Blue down here in Florida, which I was elated about, because this is something that’s been a huge need for so, so long. And so what we’ve been doing is working in different states with one insurance company at a time. And we’re really helping them to see that there are other options. And that, you know, in insurance world, ultimately, they want to make sure that it’s effective, and they want the cost to be lower than what they’re already covering. And so we are slowly but surely able to prove that, yes, this is incredibly effective. And it can be a fraction of the hours that a child is getting an ABA. You know, in ABA, often the the sort of blanket recommendation is 40 hours a week, which I mean, it’s so much.
HM:
For us as adults, I like to remind folks who do remember the 40 hour thing like, do we expect children to work the equivalent of a full time job? Like some adults can even take 40 hours a week of a job.
JT:
And that’s in addition to school, like then they have to go to school, and then they do 40 hours a week, it just feels impossible. But so what we’re doing a Positive Development is for in a fraction of those hours, and I’m talking between three to eight hours a week, we are able to make significant progress. And so something else we’re doing now is we’re starting to do a lot of research on what we’re doing. So that we can have the data to to prove to more and more insurance companies that look this really works. It doesn’t have to be behavioral, when we look at the whole child, and when we connect with them in a way that’s meaningful for them. The sky’s the limit, we can do so much. And when we get the parents involved, and that’s another big piece of what we do is the parent coaching parents support parent education to make sure that whatever effective strategies, you know, we’re working on as professionals, we want the same things happening in the home, because then not only will the parents feel more empowered to be part of the intervention process, but it helps increase the overall hours. So you know, it could be these mini moments during bath time are sitting at the table for lunch, where you’re using these effective strategies in a way that’s fun and exciting and also helping to make progress all the time and progress on the goals that the child and the family think are important. And I think that’s another big sort of differentiator with Positive Development is we don’t really care about these pointless rote you know, can you sit still for 15 minutes? No one should have to sit still for 15 Min. It sets sort of a ridiculous example. But we want to make sure that whatever it is that the child and family want to work on, we’re going to help support them in doing it.
LB:
It sounds like a major game changer. I, you know, I don’t my my practice isn’t in this area that my, my knowledge base is really from this podcast means me and from Different Brains. But what you’re saying just kind of blew my mind. That’s pretty impactful what you all are doing.
JT:
I have to say, it’s incredibly impactful. I pinch myself sometimes because I never thought that this would be able to be such an incredible program with the all the different pieces, all the different components, you know, we have teams that are working on the insurance piece, we have a marketing team, and everyone is just so driven by our mission, and really making differences and shaping futures for for everyone. So I really appreciate that, Lori. I love that you can sort of feel the passion that I feel when, when talking about some of this stuff.
LB:
Yeah, I mean, you know, there’s so many there’s been so many roadblocks for so long and and getting a holistic approach with this, you know, with developmental issues with kids is, you know, was basically unheard of, unless you had a ton of ton of money. But this is like, wow, this is really special.
JT:
Yeah, I think so. And another really cool thing that we’re doing a Positive Development not to make anyone blush, but we are consulting heavily with Haley Moss, who is just adding so much to our program, and really making sure that we’re including all perspectives when we’re doing anything. Haley, I don’t know, if you want to share a little bit about…
HM:
I am convinced I’m just the Lunch and Learn queen. That sounds goofy, but I do a lot of so I do a lot of the internal trainings and lunch and learns and get to work a lot with the marketing folks. So I’m kind of like I am the person that teaches you guys things at lunch. I know that’s probably not accurate. But I but as we were talking about before we got started, we’re actually letting me sit a little bit more with the clinical advisory board. And I know something that I’m really proud of during the time that I’ve consulted with you guys, is a couple of months ago, we had a an event that we hosted a parent panel. So we wanted to have a panel of autistic parents, because it’s something that does doesn’t get talked about that much within our community, let alone the Autistic community and the broader community. So we had, I think we had three amazing parents, one of them is a past Spectrumly guest. I know we are fans, and I’m sure Lori, you remember to have Maisie Soetantyo, from autism career pathways, that she was one of our panelists that we had two other amazing folks, we had another. We had a father, we had another mom, and everyone was just talking about how it informs their parenting, not even if they’re about their children or their co-parent, but really just even about the household and the environment that they’ve created and what they’ve learned in their journeys. And it was so powerful. And that’s honestly the thing I think I’m the most proud of not anything that I’ve done in individually, but more of being able to amplify voices. And honestly, that’s what I hope to get to continue to do. And that’s always just who I’ve been even here at Spectrumly. So that’s the thing that I didn’t really think that I’d be the geekiest about sharing. But it’s really the thing that I felt extremely proud of.
LB:
This is just really cool. I am really impressed.
HM:
And I genuinely am thankful for Dr. Jennie for even letting me be part of everybody else’s stuff.
JT:
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, of course, you add so much to the program. And I agree, Haley that that panel that you did was incredible. And if anyone’s interested in seeing it, Positive Development has a YouTube channel with all of those talks. And also a resource page on the website, a blog site where you can see amazing, amazing blogs from Haley and others. But Hayley, you’ve added so much more. And I know we sort of joke about the luncheon learns. But one of the many that I can think of that was so impactful. Well, maybe there’s a top two, one was on ableism, which was just mind blowing, and something that I think everyone needs to hear more about and learn more about. And then there was another really powerful one on language. Because it’s, you know, the words we use are important and just getting everyone on the same page and really helping people to understand the autistic perspective and what feels good and what doesn’t feel good I think is huge.
HM:
Oh, definitely. And I mainly joke about being the legend when cleaning Queen because I feel like I just do a lot of webinars period and a lot of my clients will work I remain just as the webinar person. So because a lot of what we do is very internal. And sometimes the things are external or something that folks will take with them into their practice. That’s what I get known for. So that’s why I usually joke about being the Lunch and Learn girl. Not because I am discounting what we do, it’s more of…
LB:
People are eating and having fun and learning what could be better. I mean,
HM:
I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this. So if you’ve ever gone to anything that’s professional development, have you always noticed that it’s during lunch? And as someone who delivers a lot of professional development for a living, I think it’s really funny because I never know when I’m supposed to eat lunch. You cannot snack while other people learn, you know, like, like, you are not part of your, your, the Learn you’re not the lunch. Like to eat before and then and then like, I’m eating a lunch at like 10:30 in the morning or wait until after. It’s like sometimes it’s nearly two and you’re like, Oh my God. That’s why we that’s my biggest joke about professional development is I never know when I’m supposed to or allowed to eat. Especially if said, Lunch and Learn which thankfully, so the fact that positive development especially as all over the country, that my lunch and learn schedule is not really married to a ballroom. But when they’re in ballrooms, oh my gosh, like, the catering can’t come out fast enough. And by the time that you’re ready to sit back down, because you’re done, whatever Catering is sitting at your seat is already cold. And you’re like, Well, that was an effort in futility. I guess I can maybe attempt to eat the dessert. But I have lots of feeling about catering. But thankfully, we’re not here to talk about my feelings about hotel slash ballroom slash big corporate event catering.
JT:
Do want to say though, I feel like we need to officially change the times of our lunch and learn. So maybe it’s, you know, 9am, Eastern and Moon, Pacific time. So that way you get to talk and a chance to eat your lunch that didn’t occurto me…
HM:
it like after lunchtime. I do like in that like middle like mid morning, late after mid afternoon. And then it’s more like a snack. I had a client that called it a snack and learn because it was like during snack time. So it wasn’t really a big deal if you did or didn’t eat. I feel like this is so not where I intended to go to. Yes, I do. I do things that aren’t lunch, I promise. Lunch at lunch events and lunch learning opportunities are kind of a big part of my existence, which is why it’s so easy to make fun of them. But I do it with love. Because I know that it’s a great time for a lot of people you want to break, you want to do some right? You want to maybe budget your time around differently. Because some people I know that do go to lunch professional development things, whether it’s internal or an external event, they will use that as part of their day and then take a lunch separately. So to each their own, you have better things to talk about. And that includes helping people and dismantling barriers to access, which is kind of a topic of a lot of lunch and learns to be quite honest.
LB:
Yeah. Well, it’s so important.
HM:
Yeah, we were talking about how there’s so many friggin hurdles to overcome just to get any assistance or help. So we talked about how insurance, for instance, is one of those big hurdles of oh, if you want something that’s, you know, not ABA, that insurance is kind of a monster to deal with. And what if you are uninsured or what have you. And as we know, for a lot of adults in particular, that insurance is often very much tied to whatever you know J O B you have. And for folks that struggle with consistent employment or policy, things like social security, where you know, there’s an asset cap, that sometimes there’s so many other additional barriers to access that we don’t often think about more so than just private insurers don’t cover things that would actually give us options and let us be ourselves while also still making life better for us. This probably feels like the million dollar question for all of us. And I know both of you have a very different perspective on me being some form of provider. And that’s how can we make people getting help that they need, whether they’re autistic, whether it’s in the mental health arena — How do we make it a little bit more of an accessible process?
LB:
Wow. Yeah, that’s a very important question that I didn’t have the answers to, but sounds like Positive Development is making a change, at least for some people, that’s for sure.
JT:
Yeah, we’re sure trying.
LB:
Yeah.
HM:
How are you making things more accessible for people, and especially our friends who may not have you know, insurance or might be our late diagnosed friends and stuff? Like I want to make sure that everybody gets something that they need? Because it’s hard out there?
LB:
Yeah, that was gonna be my question to Dr. Jennie is, you know, we have a lot of guests that are late to be diagnosed in adulthood. And do you have any suggestions about therapeutic options that exist from them from from your perspective?
JT:
That’s such a great question. And I have to be honest there, there needs to be more supports across the board for people who are diagnosed later in life, I get that question quite a lot. And, you know, I think that, generally speaking, kind of like just for anyone, to have someone who can be just available to be present, and to listen, I think is huge. And that could just be a friend, you know, maybe that’s doesn’t have to be a professional therapist, if if there isn’t insurance, and you know, if those sorts of things are going on, but someone to just be there and to join in the feelings. So if someone’s talking about how hard something is, you know, you want someone who’s listening to say something like, Well, gosh, that that does sound hard. You know, we don’t want people to see things like I totally understand because No, no, no one does understand what they’re going through. And, you know, if they have been diagnosed later in life, it’s sort of like, everything they thought they knew, has changed. And so I think the time and space to process that, and someone who can be there to talk about how things are going, maybe talk about the person’s ideas for what to try next, with really non judgmental, active listening. And, you know, not necessarily directing people, no one needs a checklist, especially if they’re an adult, who’s diagnosed, it’s more looking at, again, the whole person, and really individually individualizing, what’s best for this person, according to them, and doing that on a regular basis. So, again, even if it’s just like a close friend, or if there’s a chat support group, I think those can be really helpful. Some sort of a social group. Gosh, I think everyone in this world needs more social fun groups.
HM:
We do need friends, friends are good for everybody.
JT:
Yes. In linking back to the beginning, all sorts of friends, human friends, dog, friends, friends.
LB:
You know, it’s interesting. So I, I, obviously, people know what I do. And so I have a lot of people come to me to try and help them gain access to resources. And I have to say, even from my perspective, it’s always very challenging. And so I can get, it’s challenging when you get to the nitty gritty, like, I can say, Oh, you need someone like this, and, you know, I can describe them. But then when I help the person, like, okay, somebody in my area, somebody takes my insurance, you know, it’s like, oh, okay, so we have to go down this, this kind of rabbit hole. And I was, I think it was doing it this week, or last week for somebody close to me. And it took me like two to three hours just to find a short list of providers that could potentially be accessible. And I was thinking to myself, Wow, I’m doing this for someone, if they I’d sent them to do this on their own, it wouldn’t. I mean, at some point, you just stop and give up and say, you know, what, I can take care of myself or, you know, that kind of thing. And so, you know, and like, before, before we had this conversation today, I didn’t even know that positive development was out there. And I spend my time with Haley and Dr. Jennie, I feel like you’re a colleague. And, and so like, so it’s not just access, it’s just kind of knowledge and skill set. And it’s a whole lot of layers. And I’m kind of not articulating well at the end of my statement, but…
HM:
A lot of it just comes down to — it sounds like a lot of things come down to education and awareness.
LB:
And good internet websites, you know, um, you know, and, and trying to find, you know, the right website, and then you’d look up someone that’s on your insurance. And just because they’re in your insurance doesn’t mean they specialize in whatever XYZ issue is. So then you’ve got to go. And most people who have most lay people don’t know what kind of specialization somebody needs to have to give you what you need. So that’s a whole nother issue, rabbit hole that I’m going down. But yeah, it’s just we need to be mindful of all of these, all these broader issues. Because if you’re struggling, and it takes 10 hours for you of your life to try and find somebody who’s going to help you. I mean, you’re not going to put in that 10 hours to get help.
HM:
Yeah, I think I think we’re trying to solve a giant problem and like once every everyone to have things they need, and I think that it just takes, like, even when Dr. Jennie was talking about the church, it’s just one conversation at a time, right.
JT:
I heard a Someone said the other day, “hey, do you know how to eat an elephant?” “No, gosh, no.” He said “one bite at a time.” So okay, that helps put it all in perspective.
HM:
Except I want to save the elephant.
JT:
I know I do, too. I do too. Actually I was just thinking…
HM:
I would say that literally. You need elephants. This is not like they’re endangered and stuff. Can you tell me — it’s like the most obvious “your autism is showing” I’ve been like, we don’t need a whole fencer, aren’t they? On the end? Which which species? Me endangered species list? I’m pretty sure they might be. At least that’s what they said at the safari right at Animal Kingdom.
JT:
So right, can we edit that out or rewind for something?
HM:
I feel like it’s there’s always moments when it’s like, Haley that is like, you can just see the little wheels turning in my brain. And I’m like, everyone else can see the little wheels going.
JT:
Right. We don’t eat elephants. I just feel like I should at least state that clearly.
HM:
I think a reason — I feel like the lawyer in me goes: a reasonable person would assume one does not eat elephants.
LB:
Exactly, exactly.
HM:
But my poor little literal minded brain, I go “saving elehants”. And I think sometimes we are kind of in a weird way, saving the elephants, or we’re doing this too, especially when we are talking about autistic adults and folks who do get swept under the rug so often with mental health with neuro divergence, because you I find myself saying this a lot is a lot of times, when it comes to neurodiversity, we look at it as a lot of kid stuff. And that a lot of providers don’t take it seriously when adults are concerned or thinking, hey, this might be me, and it’s just never been addressed.
JT:
Yeah, that’s 100%. True, it needs to be addressed on a bigger scale across the board. Because yeah, autism is so much bigger than, you know, early intervention. And it’s great that so much focus and attention is there, but it needs to be spread out across the age spectrum as well.
HM:
The same also goes for stuff like ADHD. So I work with a lot of lawyers, we have a very high rate of ADHD that just doesn’t get addressed in the profession. And a lot of folks, when it comes to ADHD, we’re just told, Oh, this is something you deal with when you’re a kid or just doesn’t like exists. And then when you want to get diagnosed as an adult, then a lot of folks have said this, like, it’s all about getting the right person or there’s a jump off on the cliff. And I think we had a guest a couple months ago, maybe, or maybe I’m just having a deja vu moment. But there’s a lot of times that a lot of autistic people who may also have ADHD just don’t get there. Or don’t get that extra support. Because this diagnostic overshadow thing happens of like you have one diagnosis already. So why bother screening or treating the other one, especially if they seem oddly similar? So no, the autism ADHD pipeline, there was very real. I don’t remember who was talking about that. And I feel like maybe I’m imagining it, but I feel like this happened. But things like that happened to there’s just so much inequity in this whole thing. And I feel like we’re trying to solve all the problems. We can’t solve all the problems, that’s for sure. But we can at least make sure to name the problems for what they are. Yeah, no, no, this is something I learned from Blair Imani, and her Smarter in Seconds series actually the other day, is they gave the example of like, Oh, I’m being bullied because I’m bisexual, for instance, is what was in the script? And they said, No, you’re being bullied because of anti LGBTQ hate. And I was like, Oh, that makes a lot more sense. Or like homophobia, like naming the harm. In that active list, not active language. I thought that was really cool. Like, oh, you’re not being bullied because autism, you’re being bullied because ableism like just being in people that have phobias and stereotypes and stigmas against people with disabilities. It’s not the fact that you’re autistic. That’s the problem. Like, even that’s a big thing that I think we’re doing is a tiny step is just naming things in the inequities for what they are, rather than kind of being more passive about like you’re being bullied because autism, it’s like, no, you’re being bullied because ableism is real thing that I was thinking about, and Blair’s lesson on that was really something that sat with me and I can’t stop thinking about.
JT:
Wow, alright, so I almost want to do… So when we’re talking about some of the inequities we were talking about before, you know, some of the barriers to service. And I think one of them is, and this goes to what you were just saying, Haley is to reduce the need for a diagnosis to get services because so often people need certain need surfaces, but the process to get a diagnosis is so hard or so expensive, or to your waiting list or whatever it is. So I’m curious, how would we How could we active? How could we make that a more active statement?
HM:
Good question. I think I have to think about this or at least see it because I feel like for me, I need the visual.
JT:
Well, for now, maybe we just name it as reduce the need for diagnosis to get services.
LB:
Right. treat the symptom, not the diagnosis.
JT:
Exactly.
LB:
Yeah. Yeah, address the symptom, you know, who cares about the diagnosis. I mean, that’s always been my mantra, because it just doesn’t. You know, and I do think insurance drives the whole diagnosis issue, and I understand they want. And I see it both ways. But I also see that if you have somebody with a symptom in front of you, then you treat the person with the symptom. You don’t need a label.
JT:
I totally agree. That’s something in in some of our some of our centers, that’s something we see kind of a lot where there’s a year long waitlist to get a diagnosis, and they can’t get services until they get the diagnosis. So then, you know, we sort of go into full on charge motive. Okay, well, how can we get them to at least access to a diagnosis earlier? But it’s it’s tricky stuff. You’re right. We’re trying to solve a lot of world problems.
LB:
On our little podcast.
HM:
On our poor little podcast.
JT:
Amazing podcast, if I could reframe that one.
HM:
It’s so hard to, like, solve the world’s problems like that.
LB:
Yes, especially. Yeah, especially these ones, but But yeah, I strongly support anybody who is waiting, you know, any insurance carrier, you know, if you just fix the symptom, then the diagnosis really won’t be necessary. And maybe the person won’t be sick that long. You know, because they won’t think that they have a lifelong thing that needs something. Maybe it’ll reduce the amount of services that they actually need across their lifespan. I don’t
JT:
You have a need, you know, you go. You go find the people who can help you and just make life so much easier. Unless you’re older. To your point, Lori, where it is significantly harder.
LB:
Yeah, right. Anyway, anything I say doesn’t cure all of the issues? That’s for sure. But…
HM:
That’s what we’re learning. Yeah. Can’t seem to solve all the world’s problems.
LB:
No, no, but we try. And we can chat about it. Get our brains together. And you know, and so I again, circling back positive development is, seems to be an organization that’s solving a lot of problems that I’ve seen in the past. And that’s really exciting for me.
HM:
That makes me excited to
JT:
wake I thrilled. Yeah. So happy to be here and sharing with you guys. And and just to hear you guys getting excited about it. The way we get excited about it, because I it’s just really powerful.
HM:
Thank you. We just got excited for what you’re doing too.
LB:
Yeah, yeah. Keep up the good work. Dr. Jennie. You’re amazing.
HM:
We love you.
JT:
I love you guys, too. You’re amazing. You’re the ones who elevate so many voices and bring people together. And and no, we can’t solve all the problems, but at least Yeah, we’re talking about them. And you guys are facilitating that. So I just thank you so much.
HM:
Thank you for being you.
LB:
Yeah, thank you.
HM:
You’re the best.
JT:
Well, I my counter that you guys are pretty amazing. Oh, maybe we can share the title.
LB:
There we go.
JT:
Well, one others just sort of fun thing is that, you know, right after our last podcast, I remember I had so much fun with you guys and connected with Haley. And afterwards, we said, You know what we’re going to be for real friends and let’s meet up for lunch. And so we did, we went out to lunch. And then I think it was the next week that the world shut down.
LB:
At least got it in before that happened. That’s awesome.
JT:
Exactly. I think it was Haley. I think you were my last meeting or my last like, thing before, like this happened.
LB:
Wow. That’s awesome. That’s wonderful.
JT:
It really is. It really was and then I and then you know, that sort of propelled Haley’s involvement with Positive Development, which has been instrumental in so
HM:
and you have believed in me so many times and have connected me to people and I’m just grateful to have you. And for those who want to learn more, I’m assuming they could follow you, you and your work through Positive Development website and social as well?
JT:
Absolutely, yeah. Positive Development’s all over. So the website has blogs. We have a YouTube channel, Instagram, Facebook, On LinkedIn handshake, which is a new platform I’m learning about which apparently is okay, good because I didn’t know either I had to look it up.
HM:
It’s not tik tok so, yeah. Still like slowly learning.
JT:
Exactly. Tik tok is hard. It’s a whole it’s a whole thing in itself
HM:
It really is. But we will be sure to invite everyone to check out all the amazing work that is going on at Positive Development to help make things more neurodiversity affirming and also more accessible to different folks and give you guys options that are non ABA from what we’ve discussed as well and developmental approaches. As for the rest of us, be sure to check out different brains.org and check out their Twitter and Instagram @DiffBrains. Also, don’t forget to look for them on Facebook. If you want to say hello to yours truly I can be found at haleymoss.com Or on all the major social media platforms including Tik Tok, which I don’t quite know how to use. I’m figuring it out slowly.
LB:
I can be found at CFI experts.com Please be sure to subscribe and rate us on iTunes and don’t hesitate to send questions to Spectrumlyspeaking@gmail.com. Let’s keep the conversation going.
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
