Comedian James Mullinger discusses ADHD’s effect on his life and performances.
James Mullinger was one of the UK’s top comedians and Comedy Editor for GQ magazine when he moved to Canada in February 2014. Since his arrival, he has taken the country by storm. Sold out shows across the country, appearances on CBC’s The Debaters, CTV’s The Social and The Good Stuff With Mary Berg. Movies, TV shows, festivals, awards, podcasts, stand-up specials… he’s done it all!
An award-winning writer, comedian and filmmaker, he spent 15 years in a senior position at British GQ, interviewing everyone from Jerry Seinfeld and Paul Rudd to Rachel Weisz and Scarlett Johansson and launching the magazine’s digital division. In April 2016 and 2018, James sold out TD Station Arena with his uniquely hilarious stand- up shows, outselling Jerry Seinfeld, Snoop Dogg and Guns N’ Roses when they played the same venue. An award-winning CBC documentary about the show titled City On Fire was aired nationally to rave reviews. His stand-up special, Almost Canadian, shot straight to #1 on the iTunes charts and was nominated for a Canadian Comedy Award for Best Taped Live Performance. A film that he co-wrote about his early years in comedy was released in cinemas across the UK and premiered at the Just for Laughs festival in Montreal in 2016. It stars actors from Downton Abbey, Twilight, and Game of Thrones.
In June 2017 he launched Atlantic Canada’s first-ever international magazine, [EDIT] — an award- winning premium media brand devoted to celebrating business leaders and creatives doing the unexpected while expanding Canada’s global reach. James is also the host of the hit #1 TV series Atlantic Edition, that sees him interviewing icons on the East Coast including Alan Doyle, Chef Michael Smith, Lucinda Flemer, Maestro Fresh Wes, Joel Plaskett and Maesha Brueggergosman. His podcast Mullinger Meets Canadians reached the Top 30 podcast charts and his memoir Brit Happens – Living The Canadian Dream was published by Goose Lane Editions in May 2022 to rave reviews, a Best Non-Fiction Book award and became a national bestseller.
James has also raised more than half a million dollars for charities internationally. He is a much sought-after, corporate clean comedian and keynote speaker internationally on the subjects of the power of positive thinking, embracing change, personal presentation skills, time management, marketing and media and how celebrating where we live can improve how you work, live and play.
For more about James’ work: https://www.jamesmullinger.com/
For more about host Shawn Smith: https://ddmacs.ca/
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Note: the following transcription was automatically generated. Some imperfections may exist.
SHAWN SMITH (SS):
Hello and welcome to the different brains podcast. I’m your host today, Shawn Smith, and today, our guest is none other than famous comedian James Mullinger. I first met James in 2014 when he had just got arrived to Canada. He probably doesn’t remember this, but he did a small comedic show on a dirt floor in Fredericton called the Jack and Jill show. And I was actually in the van that picked James up to take him to the event. So it’s such a small world because James has gone literally from that dirt floor to selling out spaces that Seinfeld hasn’t even been able to sell out. Welcome James. Can you please introduce us to our audience?
JAMES MULLINGER (JM):
Thank you very much, Shawn, for that lovely intro. I do remember that. And then, of course, we then met again. We in, in the Playhouse in Fredericton. But, um, but I will say, crucially, one of the things that, as you know, and I think anyone that lives in smaller places or rural communities, you know, I still play those dirt floors, you know, I still play, you know, I might do, you know, 1000 seater theater theater one week, but the following week, I’m back in a greenhouse in the woods, quite literally getting heckled by by livestock. So you know you got to do what you got to do.
SS:
Absolutely. Can you introduce us to our audience?
JM:
Absolutely? So my name is James. I have, as you’ve heard, I’ve known Shawn for 11 years. I am both comedian and by comedian I mean, I’m a stand up comedian who tours Canada. I did it for 10 years in England before moving to New Brunswick, Canada in 2014 I also publish a magazine by the name of the maritime edit, which is a lifestyle publication celebrating Great Atlantic Canadians. And one of those great Atlantic Canadians that we have celebrated was indeed Shawn himself, who wrote a truly eye opening and majestic and beautiful. And as listeners and watches of viewers of this show already know, Shawn has an incredible way with words and an incredible way of communicating and and the article was about late in life diagnosis, and at the time, I’m reading this thinking, Wow, that must be so hard. How does one go through all that without knowing? Little did I know that I was already going through that same thing, and and myself got diagnosed two and a half years ago.
SS:
Welcome to the world of the uniquely gifted and often misunderstood beautiful.
JM:
That is a wonderful, wonderful way of putting it. As I said, way with words and no, it’s a real honor to be here with you, Shawn, and indeed, all of your viewers and listeners.
SS:
I appreciate it. What inspired you to move from the UK to Canada?
JM:
It was very much. It was definitely a quality of life move right now, 11 years in, it’s very easy, with the benefit of hindsight, to be able to look back and go, Well, yeah, this was the this was the best decision we could have made, because so many things have fitted into place. You know? I mean, I was certainly told that leaving London, England and moving to a small town in New Brunswick, that I was going to have to give up, give up being a comedian, certainly give up working in magazines, and then, conversely, both those jobs that I had back in the UK have taken off here in a far better way than they were ever going to happen in England. And I truly believe there’s a combination of factors for that. One being, you know that if you if you are in a smaller place where there isn’t a built in comedy industry or built in magazine industry, there isn’t a well worn path that you’re told to, you know, you can forge your own way, but so, but the thing realistically at the time, it’s odd looking back, because I remember the conversations my wife and I had when we were she’s from New Brunswick. She grew up here, but she’d been gone for many years. She’d lived in Toronto for six years, London for 14 and then suddenly, I would say it was a combination of being very burned out by the London rat race I was I had a job, which I worked in every day, and then traveled across the country every night performing stand up. So on paper, had this somewhat enviable life working for GQ magazine during the day, doing stand up at night. I had a TV show. But the reality was, was that we had no quality of life. And of course, you are just in this kind of hamster wheel of I mean, to give a very literal example of financially, my GQ salary didn’t cover childcare, so I’m basically working for free to pay a stranger to be with the people I want to be with most. And it’s when you realize that all of this is essentially ego driven. It’s like, well, it’s a cool job, and it’s a, you know, so and, and so basically, it was the kind of the first decision I’ve kind of made that wasn’t ego driven or career driven. It’s like, let’s move to a place where we can have the best quality of life in the world. It is also slightly sounds. It is looking back, slightly stupid, because we had no plan. Like we’re both of us who in these, in these, in. Incredible jobs, which, on paper, were very well paid, although, you know, Easy come, easy, go, but you know, benefits, health benefits, pensions, all my family is there, so to up sticks and go, we’ll go to a place where we’ve got no plan. But we truly believed that if you’re willing to work hard, you can do what you do anywhere. But crucially, we just want my wife. It’s funny, it’s been 11 years now. As I say, we were sitting in our tiny shoe box garden. That’s basically the size of this area I’m sitting in now and and she said, if we don’t make a move now, in 10 years, we’ll still be in the exact same position, and we won’t have seen the kids grow up and suddenly blink. 10 years have gone by. We have been here and present for every single you know, every single hockey game, every soccer game, every every Christmas concert you know. So it was. It was a very long answer to a very similar question, but essentially it was. It was quality of life and but I never in a million years dreams that making a decision that was based solely on what’s the best thing for my children would turn into the best thing for both of our careers as well? Yeah, that’s, that’s amazing. Oh, thank you, mate. Now it’s, um, it’s been quite a journey.
SS:
Can you tell us a bit more about your ADHD diagnosis, James, like, what? What age were you and what was there something that led to wanting to be assessed?
JM:
Yeah, excellent question. I mean, it’s funny, isn’t it, when you look back and you back and you look at this, this kind of, essentially, that kind of tipping point of, what’s the thing that, you know, you’ve always been somewhat aware of that there was something different. And then, of course, there’s the fact that people obviously overuse these phrases, like people’s, you know, it’s like that. And again, I don’t think people mean to be offensive. But you know, when people say, you know, oh, we’re all a bit ADHD, or we’re all a bit autistic, or all a bit OCD, and it’s like, well, no, no, no, sorry, when we’re actually not, like, either you are or you aren’t, and, and, but I had often people, obviously, often said to me many times like, you know, you seem ADHD, and certainly things like reading your article, which I’m kind of reading it going, Wow, that sounds like me. But again, you’re thinking, or certainly I was thinking, I don’t want to seem flippant by assuming, yeah, and I’m trying to think what the actual I think it was reaching a point of, to be honest, being overwhelmed with essentially, getting extremely depressed with the fact that my brain is running in 500 different directions, and not being very curious as to why. Why is it my wife can sit on the couch and watch TV and not be thinking about 500 different things in every single different possible terrible scenario in life that could happen? And why do I wake up at four o’clock in the morning with 500 ideas, suggestions to do, lists flooding into my head, and I must act on them all immediately at the same time, complete none of them, and so all of those things. And so I think what it was was realizing that I was getting to be unhappy, possibly sometimes using alcohol as a, as a, as a, as a cure for to drown out the the things down, yes, exactly. And um, so I thought I should get, you know, I should go down, this, this, this, I should find out. And I spoke to my family docs. And I think it was just a combination of people saying, and then, of course, when you start looking back, for example, all of my school reports, they are all every single one has the same words that we all now know. But obviously it was so different in the 80s, but, but, you know, everyone says, you know, he drifts off into a daydream. He can’t concentrate, he can’t focus. He doesn’t pay attention. Like, I mean, pretty much every single page of every single report has all of the buzzwords that we now know what that means, but back then, teachers didn’t know how to do it, so I went for the test somewhat reluctantly or cautiously and nervously, and also didn’t know what else I knew there was going I knew there was going to be something, and I didn’t know what. And then, yeah, it to then discovered that I was on the kind of extreme end, and to realize that, and it’s, and it’s, it’s very eye opening to be able to, kind of, when you are literally spinning out as you look, yeah, to suddenly go, there’s a reason for this, and that’s the reason.
SS:
Yeah, I like to call them aha moments. The pieces of the puzzle never seem to fit. All of a sudden, start to come together.
JM:
That’s exactly it. And it’s, it’s, you know, and it’s interesting when you speak to kids who have just got the diagnosis of, you know, 789, 1011, 12, and they’re and they’re finding it, you know, like, oh, this has been eye opening. And you think, wow. Like, that’s amazing. And I’m super happy for them. But how on earth did we cope for three more decades before knowing.
SS:
Well, we buried that shit deep in toxic masculinity.
JM:
Yeah, totally. It’s, it’s interesting find you know as we know, like finding the ways that you know, knowing you know. I mean right next to me. I mean this. This book, you know, knowing that I need these dopamine hits, like knowing that I have to create these long, long lists and ticking things off. And, I mean, funnily enough, and, you know, fortuitously enough. So I’ve had a book that I’ve been working on about late in life diagnosis and looking back on and I basically it’s that thing where you need something. So I was made it. I had all the chapters ready, but I knew this was coming up at 330 so I’m like, I must. So I got all the chapters in order. I’ve been putting it off for weeks, but because I had this, I knew I could get it done, because I had a deadline. And it’s fascinating, those little things that so again, you’re always helping me, Shawn, is what I’m trying to say.
SS:
I’m not going to take all the credit. How do you think your understanding of ADHD has changed now that you’re like, did you have some ideas or thoughts about it before, and have they changed now that you’re diagnosed?
JM:
Yes, I would say that I probably had the, you know, realistically, like, like a lot of people probably had, while not a prejudice, but I certainly would have had a, I would have been under the impression that that, again, from, like, media depictions, that history, that people with what we have are kind of out of control or in control about, you know, and you know, and I guess to that, to that prejudice, it would be that thing of someone going well. And I’ve seen it since, like I saw there was a show I was booked to do, opening for Chris, opening for the astronauts, Chris Hatfield and and one of the, and there was a few people making comments saying, you know, I shouldn’t be, I shouldn’t be there, because, you know this anyway, one of the people was like, you know, he has ADHD, why? You know, as if, like, that makes me unpredictable and unreliable. And I guess, I guess, you know, so that would have been, and it really, it was something, it was something otherworldly, I guess is how I saw it, as we see anything that we don’t really understand absolutely, and then to suddenly, and then, yeah, as you said, the example you give about the puzzle piece is fitting, like it’s so it’s just, It’s such a relief every single day to go as I’m spinning out as all these things that to going, Okay, I know what this is, rather than before, I basically I thought that I was completely I thought I was completely insane that, and I basically thought that for 45 years, until I got diagnosed.
SS:
It’s interesting to ask, because for like, we’re around the same age, and you know, if we had been diagnosed when we were younger, I don’t know about the UK, but in Canada, we would have been placed in special education, which I compared to Hotel California, anytime you like, but you could never leave like it impacted you. Like middle school, high school, you wouldn’t get into college or university.
JM:
So, it was treated as a disability.
SS:
You would have been placed in a room with, you know, people with intellectual disabilities, Down syndrome, like it was just a melting pot of every disability in one room.
JM:
Interesting, yeah, I mean, I mean, it is tragic to think of all of those, you know. I mean, however many millions of people over the years who have been written off by their teachers because of and again. I mean, my reports were brutal, and to an extent, I was placed in that like my school was very proud of good results, I guess, as all schools are. But basically, I was dismissed very early on, like I was, you know, put into the bottom set of everything. And basically, yeah, you kind of left left to right, and, you know, and as a result, failed everything, you know, got terrible grades. And, yeah, never really got there was one, there’s one report that we found where the teacher, I think, when I was 16, said that they thought I had a learning difficulty and that I should get specialist help. But then, obviously, everyone goes out for that we’re not doing that, and and so that that never happened. But yes, it’s weird to think, yeah, and I hope it’s obviously improved. This is the thing. I mean, I’ve obviously met some kids, but, I mean, how is the system now? Like, how, how well is it caring for people, would you say? Or you’ve learned?
SS:
Well, it depends, right? So different brains is based out of Florida, and we’re in Canada, right? So I would say the big difference between the US and Canada, we’re about 20, 30 years behind.
JM:
Wow, yeah, I’m not surprised.
SS:
Which is why I have more of a following in the States and in Florida than I do here. We still subscribe to the you know, the term disability is still synonymous with less than and one of the things I love about different brains is they don’t subscribe to that mentality. We are uniquely gifted the challenges every. Is focused on our perceived challenges. So where we align is we both try to dig in and figure out what are people’s strengths, and how do we try to amplify those?
JM:
Right that, and it’s so interesting, and that’s exactly how I’ve dealt with everything since the as you say, it’s this looking at the world in a different way should be 100% seen as a as a bonus, as a benefit. And as you say, it’s, it’s really sad when you think of that not happening. And, you know, yeah, and I’ve said, I think, crucially, I would say any of this, any of the success, or any of the things that I’ve done, are 100% to it is to thank for that, like, like, I would say that that my unique way of coming at things is what has made, you know, it’s, you know, it’s like, Yes, I might be juggling 50 different things normal, but ultimately it’s still 50 things and those and getting those 50 things done, ultimately, is so, yeah, it’s sad to think that the things that I could have achieved at school had I had the right guidance, it’s but I feel like I’ve made up for it since.
SS:
Well, you know, it’s easy to think that way, James, because people have often asked me and like, I wouldn’t have the life that I have. I wouldn’t have my two amazing kids and my wonderful wife, right? It would, it would be a different be like we’re in a multiverse somewhere, right? It’s a different version of ourselves that, yeah, so this is, this is much better, man, you know, we can, yeah, we can look back and we can reflect, but I try not to spend too much time there.
JM:
Yeah, absolutely, and I am. I couldn’t agree more. It’s literally just a day to day thing of going, how can I channel it into a superpower? And that’s, that’s the number one thing that I felt like. It held me back at school for recent reasons. I couldn’t concentrate on focus on things that I wasn’t interested in, but but now being able to embrace the things that I am it means that I I get 10 times I get 10 times more done thanks to there. Yeah. So it’s, it’s wonderful.
SS:
What role do you think ADHD has played in your performing in comedy?
JM:
Good question. I would say it’s interesting. I’m really I’m actually leaning into it a lot more now and I since diagnosis, I now I talk about it on stage. I even I also incorporated reading my school reports into that, into that show part. One of the things that I’ve started to lean into, almost as a, as a, as a, as an act, as a technique, is my brain goes in all these, all these directions. So before, I used to try and stay very focused and linear, and I would resist that, and I would go, Okay, I’ve started this routine. I’ve started this routine. I need to finish that before I go on to the next one. Now I’ve kind of created this almost more me, more phonetic, kind of out there performance style, where I start multiple stories and don’t quite finish them, and keep going off on tangents, and then and make a make a point of it. And then, of course, it means I can talk about the HD and then huge laughs come from coming back to the story. So I start this story. It’s like, so I’m in St John’s, and they’re like, oh, and then I can go. And then, so 10 minutes later, I go anyway. So I was in St John’s massive laugh, because they know what’s just happened. They know I’ve gone off on this tangent. Come straight back around. And so now it’s become almost a structural, a plan like and it gives the audience, and it creates what in all great stand up, it should feel. It should, of course, everyone, it should feel impulsive and real and in the moment. And of course, that’s the wonderful illusion with comedy, is you’re making it feel. And of course, 20 years ago, when people went to see comedians or more, there was this understand, I think back then, there was less understanding of the process of creating an act. So there was this idea that possibly these were these mystical geniuses that went on the stage and just made up all these jokes on the spot. And now, unfortunately, due to so much comedy analysis and so many comedy podcasts and all this, everyone’s kind of aware of the process, but then maybe so in some ways, that makes it harder to create those very real moments. And I found that I’ve really leaned into that. And so rather than resisting what my brain wants to do, I let it go up on these tangents, and it creates an atmosphere and environment in the room that feels very freewheeling. And again, it of course, it seems unfocused, it seems messy, but of course, it’s all very strategically planned that way, and so I can lean into it.
SS:
Well, I’ve been to three of your shows, so I know how you operate. But also I think it’s worthwhile, like for people that haven’t seen you. Like your stage presence, like you are from one state, one end of the stage to the other, and taking everybody on a journey with you as you go back and forth.
JM:
I mean, it’s a bit like watching Wimbledon tennis, like having to go back and forth. And a lot of that is, I would definitely say, like, it’s the ADHD nervous energy. It’s that, it’s that I can’t stand still. I when I am on a small stage, there’s a wonderful new comedy club in Frederickson called the comic sutra, which is this beautiful 4550 seat club with a tiny stage. And I was almost like a caged animal on the stage, because I’m so used to pacing up and down. I mean, I mean, it’s one of those things that, again, I sometimes all the pacing can be distracting for people. And I must get 10,000 steps in during a show for me, it’s, I mean, it’s definitely how I felt comfortable. I need to be doing that. It’s the in the same way that we’re, you know, generally, when people, you know, those with HD, we’re sitting there, we’re always tapping our feet. Was I’m and I didn’t realize quite how bad it was until I watched, I did an episode of CBC. Is the debaters, which, for American listers, is a Canadian comedy panel show in which opposing comedians will debate a subject, of course, comedically hilarious. Oh, well, yeah, and it’s, yeah, it’s a very, very fun. And the topics could be serious. They could be very silly. My first one I ever did was the motion was, fog is wonderful. I was arguing in favor of fog, and in a moment of wonderful the world, you know, creating a story for you. I was, I drove to St John airport to fly to Halifax to record it, and my flight was canceled because of fog. I mean, literally, like you can make up the irony of this. But I was watching the footage, I had to debate small airports versus big airports a few weeks ago, and I saw some footage of me standing at the mic, and I’m because I’m standing still. I’m literally flying around like this, literally moving like Mick, Jagger and um, but again, I think that is that comes from that thing of needing to needing and wanting to move all the time, I guess, another, another obvious realization of being different throughout my life was like in younger years in my certainly at university, in my 20s, and taking like stimulant drugs for the first time, and Seeing how everyone else went absolutely wild, and then I would just sit calmly and feel just feel relaxed for the first time, like, and everything had the opposite effect on me. Like, that was another thing of like, why is this that wasn’t that was another kind of early sign. I would say.
SS:
Okay, are there any particular tools that you use, like, for business, personal, life, comedy, to help accommodate your ADHD?
JM:
Yeah, I mean, I mean, the list is a big one, like knowing that I need and knowing that I need those, and writing everything down, like, like, again, if my wife tells me to do anything, I’m gonna forget. It has to go on a piece of paper. Everyone knows it. It’s going down. And I’m going to walk into the, you know, send me downstairs to get something even, you know, it ideally, even that’s written down, because I’m going to get down there and see something and go, oh. And, I mean, I mean, I have a joke in my act about this, about the fact, you know, when I wake up and the four, you know, the 400 thoughts come flooding in my head and and it’s like, go downstairs to the basement and start doing the laundry, but just do a bit of the laundry, but some of it in the dryer, some of it on the floor. Oh, plug the iron in. You won’t forget about that. And go and start running the running the water to do the dishes. You’re not going to forget about that. That’s the other thing. Realizing that you cannot ever turn on a tap or plug in an iron and leave the rub like this. You’re gonna get distracted. You can’t leave anything on. And again, I kind of, you know. And then I start organizing the the Tupperware containers. And then a thought pops in my head, like, why are Tupperware containers round when there’s no round cupboards? I should Google that. And then something pops up, how did the entire cast of Little House on the Prairie die? And then you start seeing the symptoms of what well done. I’ve got that niche toe, I’ve got those symptoms and all of those so writing things down, but for me, the big thing is knowing I need those dopamine hits, like I write everything down on a list and it has to get done. Like I cannot be happy unless that thing gets done. And I would say that is the number one coping technique for life work. I mean, interestingly, even before diagnosis, I did do that, but now even more religiously, and I actually allow myself to, I guess now I know, enjoy the ticking off and the buzz that I get from that.
SS:
Psychology of lists. I know if I don’t write it down, it will not happen. These little lines like that James that I repeat to myself over the years because I know enough about myself that I will forget.
JM:
It’s It’s so true. Totally, totally, yeah, but we know. Going to get distracted by a million different things and and then sometimes it’s just that kind of those breathing exercises of you know when, especially when your brains going to those dark, I mean, those dark places when you’re inevitably thinking of all of the worst possible eventualities of a scenario, or a moment when you allow, allow yourself to be happy from you start thinking about all the terrible things that might happen in the future. It’s just that thing of, you know, taking a breath swimming is one thing that I do to kind of clear. That’s something that I know, if I’m gonna have a stressful day, go for a swim, try and clear my I’d like to say that I can get in the water again, I think people, non neurodiverse, people, I’m sure, can get into the water and clear their heads. I mean, my head’s still flying in a million different directions, but, but at least it’s something, you know. And again, it’s all the usual things, like, you know. I mean, we got a dog during covid. Having a dog is an obvious, you know thing, where I can’t sit still, but, but suddenly, having a dog is amazing, because sitting with her is have it. I’m having quality time with her. So it’s allowed me to let myself sit for five minutes, but um, and then other coping things is like instilling given how kind of addicting, addictive, you know, social media and apps and everything else can be. You know, it’s forcing myself to have social media free days knowing that, you know, I can go down that rabbit hole and putting the phone in a different room, all of those things. But, I mean, the other one is obviously, yeah, like being very aware of all of how our brains are when we’re driving. Because, I mean, I again, I’ve written off far too many cars due to being distracted by things.
SS:
So with the lane assist thing is golden. There right in the middle of the lane.
JM:
Totally. Yes, you can’t be Yeah, that’s beautiful. Yeah, that’s, that’s perfect. That’s almost like designed by car engineers, specifically for neurodiverse people,.
SS:
For sure. From your perspective, James, what do you think the difference is between the perception of ADHD and neurodiversity between the UK and Canada?
JM:
Good question. I don’t know if I knew much about it in the UK. And I don’t, I would suspect. I mean, the interesting thing, of course, is that in addition to, you know, in theory, and I know you mentioned, Neo Canada is obviously very behind the US, but, but the fact that, the fact that now it is acknowledged by schools and and, you know, kids do get the help that they need, of course, there is still, and this is something which I was aware of when writing the book. There are still those people out there who don’t believe in it. You know, there’s people that think that, that there’s over diagnosis going on, which, again, just seems bizarre that anyone would think that. But then these are the same people that don’t believe in in depression, or don’t think that alcoholism is real or drug addiction is real, and it’s all a choice, but, but, but it’s interesting thing being aware of that, especially when you tell people you have it, sometimes you kind of see, you see, see a flicker of something. And you kind of like thinking, I wonder. I wonder what they’re I wonder if they’re thinking that, you know, if it’s skepticism or if it’s if it’s fear, but to be permanent, yeah, I don’t know, other than the area in which I felt, I felt that I was able to get the help quicker and easier, although obviously it was very expensive to get the testing. You know, I felt like I felt like I felt more supported here, purely because I also live in a small community, whereas, obviously, and I think I’ve mentioned this on stage, somewhat jokingly, but also somewhat truthfully, that there was various people that said to me here of you should think about this. And I think living in a place where there is a sense of community and people are looking out for you, that has led me to do it. I don’t think if I stayed in London, I would have ever got round to it. I think the madness of of London life played into it all so much, and it’s like everyone is it’s almost like everyone has agency, because everyone is completely burned out, everyone’s completely stressed, everyone’s drinking far too much. And so again, you could probably continue to self diagnose with alcohol in a place like London without anyone so, so yeah, so I don’t know, like, socially or politically or kind of you know, how the education system is there for it. But I definitely think that there’s a gulf of difference between small towns and big cities, wherever they are in the world.
SS:
Yeah, yeah. Can you tell us about your upcoming special and how you prepare for it?
JM:
Yeah, absolutely, I am. Every. Year I try and basically, kind of come up with a new kind of hour of material. And sometimes, as as the tours end, there’s stuff filtering into the shows that then will be part of next year’s, and it’s come an ongoing process like, I think I’ve done 54 dates so far there, and that’s those are kind of tour dates which could be in anywhere from comedy clubs to breweries to theaters, hockey arenas, you know, all different and and so next week I’m going to BC to do five shows in in and around the Okanagan Valley. But there’s, I find it somewhat hard to sit and actually like write a routine. What I generally try and do is, I mean, I’m always keeping notes and seeing things. And I do, the way that I build a new show is I do these work in progress shows where, basically, I will book a brewery that is, I mean, to me, this is, like, when people talk about, like, like, success. And, of course, you know, like, you know, I’m basically outside of the small region that we live in, essentially, kind of are known as a comedian. But for me, the fact that I can, I have this brewing him. It’s 45 seats. I can put Tickets on sale and say, This is a work in progress. I actually put on the poster. It might be shit, and it’s fully out there. It’s like, this is, this is all brand new. It says it on the Facebook website. No one can complain afterwards. And basically can, pretty much on almost weekly basis, fill this this venue. And to me, that’s, I cannot believe that I get to live in a beautiful rural place and and, you know, play, of course, theaters across the country. But crucially, I put on I suddenly announced that if I think I want to test this, this new hour of material, I’ve got this scraps of paper, I could put a show on sale this time next week, and it’d be sold out in no time. And that to me, and it’s amazing. And of course, it’s amazing thing I spent also financially, because it’s like, whenever you need to work, you can. But to answer your question, what I do is I come up with notes and ideas, and I go on stage and I basically work it out. And sometimes they’re laughing because it’s going so badly, sometimes they’re laughing. And so an example is something that we I wrote off our last car, and then during covid, the only car that was available was an EV car, so our only and of course, when I go on the road, I rent a car. But basically, we are living in a rural age, part of New Brunswick with our sole car. Family car is an EV, 100% EV, so I mean, that has given me so much Mathilde. And of course, basically, as I’m so at the start of the year, in January, I was up there, essentially telling stories about things that have gone wrong, trying to drive to Fredericton. And then it says you’ve got 500 kilometers, but you haven’t. You’ve only got 500 kilometers if you’re only going a certain speed. Is the heating on? Is the radio on? Did someone in the car fart or breathe or, you know, and it keeps coming down and down and down, and then the race against time to try and get there. And it’s one of those things where, at first this routine was basically just me complaining, and then I basically do it again and again and again and again and then, and you just keep and then gradually you try and write jokes in or you say something that then gets a laugh, and that becomes it. So I basically built I build it in front of a live audience, so I’m sure. But yeah, there’s a few instances like this where something will happen. I did it. There was a show, a story I did. I think at the last show you saw about me going to a Tim Hortons with Nicky Payne and Nancy Regan. That Nancy Reagan from American listeners, is a is like a Barbara Walters TV icon of Atlantic Canada. And we basically go to this drive through, and we basically try and get through a drive through without a car. Now it was, it was just a thing that happened. It turned into a 10 minute routine. So essentially, they’re all real things that have happened to me. So I tell it on stage, I tape record it, and then I transcribe what I’ve said, and then I highlight in red where the laughs Come. And then I work out, what do I not need between the red marks, what words can I lose to get to the laugh quicker? So it’s all built in front of a live audience, and then gradually and then on, yes, on the 17th of April next year, I will tape the stand up special at the Rebecca Cohen Auditorium in Halifax. And yeah, just hope it’s all in good shape by then.
SS:
You know will be I’ve seen your show three different times. Standing ovation every time at the end.
JM:
That’s kind mate. Thank you it means a lot. Thank you.
SS:
How can people find out more about you and your work?
JM:
My website is just jamesmulinger.com but I would say that Instagram and Facebook is where I post so much of my stand up. But in a lot of cases I’m posting, you know. Stand Up clips every day on Facebook, I’m James Mullinger, comedian. On Instagram, again, it’s just at James mollinger, same for Tiktok. And on there, I post videos. I also post videos about ADHD, kind of idiosyncrasies and things that we all do. I mean, there was one thing where, again, I have a public facing job, of course, that involves me being on a stage in front of lots of people, but I am very I still have the same anxiety and social discomfort I had as a child in social settings. And so one video I posted, for example, was a comedic but steeped in reality. Of, you know, I live in a small place where I go into Costco, I’m going to see dozens of people. I know, right? We’re going to, we’re going to, you know, we’re going to bump and and some ways, it makes me nervous. I mean, I guess I once described it to a therapist as I can walk on stage in front of 1000 people, and yes, I’m nervous, but I can do it, but, and it, but it’s, it’s an, it’s an excitement, nerves. Whereas, if my wife says we’re going to a dinner party and there’s people there, I don’t know, I’m going through all of these terrible scenarios in my head, and basically, am riddled with nerves and anxiety about this, to the extent that I’ll probably pick a fight just so I can say I’m not going to your stupid party anyway. And, and, and a therapist once described it to me as being how on stage I’m in control, like I’m in control of the situation where the conversation goes, it’s essentially me talking, which nothing ADHDers love more than talking, especially about ourselves. And so really, on stage, I’m in control. And there are things that could go there. Obviously there could be hackers, there could be interruptions, but those are all. They’re all fixed within a parameter of expectation, of what you expect to happen, whereas in a dinner party, a conversation can go anywhere. And I struggle with that. I really struggle with with small talk, like if I mean people, and people asking questions, and I think, and so I often avoid social settings, because I do often. It’s funny when people like they come to a show. And then afterwards they say, you know, will you come and meet so and so? Will you come here? And then I’m thinking, Oh, my goodness, I don’t want them to see the real the because they’re going to go, oh, he was so funny up there. And he’s so he’s so boring, or so awkward, or so, you know what I mean, like that. That is something which I can’t know what the question was, but…
SS:
That’s okay. I wonder if that situation, when you’re on stage James, like in the neurodivergent community, there’s a talk, you know, more so I think with autistic folks, but you know, maybe with ADHD as well, like putting on a mask, right? And so masking and kind of like becoming that character for that amount of time.
JM:
Totally, I think that’s the thing, and it’s getting into that that’s my biggest fear when I’m backstage before a show, I know generally what happens is, like, I can’t think of I can’t think, like, in a sound check, if someone says, What’s your opening line? I’m like, I’ve no idea. And someone says, do the homemade wine joke? I’m like, How does that even start? But then when I walk out, it’s all just there, and I know no ins and out. And I My biggest fear when I’m backstage before going out, is, what if the switch doesn’t flick where performance me comes out? But it’s funny, yeah, how? I mean, again, on Sunday, my wife organized, am a huge it’s a community fundraiser for the st John Regional Hospital Foundation, and it’s a big Christmas market. And there’s like 1300 people there. Everyone in our communities there, I’m, I feel I’m very nervous about it beforehand. I’m like, about being on those people. But as soon as someone comes up and starts talking, the switch clicks, and I go into, kind of like, you know, I can go into the mode, right? But, but, um, but I’m also, yeah, it’s funny. Like, I’m, I’m definitely, and when I go and do a show like I’m I did one last Thursday. It was a corporate gig at the Algonquin resort in a place called St Andrews, which is on the border of Maine. And they, I get there and and it’s like, yeah, pre show or great, yeah, get get it set up. Do the show. Wonderful. After the show, I’m good for however long, however long people want to chat for. I’m there. Yeah, I can be there. I can do it. I can work the room. But then the next night I would write, like, if I’m home, I’m very happy alone. Like, I’m very happy in this room. This room is full of behind me is millions of VHS tapes of from my childhood. I’m happy sitting here watching old comedy videos. Like, yeah. So yeah, it’s, it’s an interesting thing. As you say.
SS:
I can’t show you my Transformers because I’d have to move. I have an arcade the other side.
JM:
Awesome, original Transformers from when we were kids. Like, do you. Yeah, because I saw on eBay the original Optimus Prime in the box from when we were, like, in the 80s. It’s like $1,000 now, though,
SS:
Yeah, no, I’ve got some reissued ones, 86 version for sure. Can you tell us a bit about your your book, Brit happens, living the Canadian dream?
JM:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I will send you a copy show if I haven’t before, yeah, well, I will get your address and send you on this is the book for anyone listening. It is on Spotify and audible, as well as an audio book with me reading it again. That took a long, long time to do due to my many tangents and and getting distracted. But the book is essentially…
SS:
Its a bonus for readers, though, I got to say, because we hear you and not a monotone voice, we get the real deal right.
JM:
And that, I think that was why it was quite hard work doing it, because I, rather than just read it as a as a narration, I very much performed it. So I was obviously standing up for all of it, and I would really but then it’s trying to get that balance right between not shouting it, or, you know, being too on stage, animated, but but performing it enough that anyway, but it’s essentially about, it’s essentially a memoir. It’s about my journey to Atlantic Canada. And it’s about, essentially, you know, starting out in comedy, the grind of the UK comedy circuit, what it takes to build a stage presence, build an act, what it takes to become a professional comedian. And then essentially, is about like moving here and how coming here and starting all over and again for American This is, I mean, basically, where shall I live? It’s a province that is not it’s known for being beautiful and friendly and so forth, but it is not known for entertainment. And so as such, when you move here, people like, well, you can’t be a comedian here. There is no comedy industry. And so essentially, the book outlines, I realized that I was going to have to do what any business would do, what a plumber would do, go out and do some things and show people what I do. So I started off doing shows. I mean, it’s actually crazy how quick it was, and this is testament to where we live and how people do get behind, whether it be newcomers or people with crazy ideas or or just that, that sense of connection and community. But basically, I arrive in February 2014 I believe it was possibly that summer Shawn, when we, when we met, when I did that Jack show. But basically I thought I was giving up comedy coming here like that’s how much I wanted to live here, and what, how much I wanted to give my kids this quality of life. I thought I was giving it up. And then I got invited to do a show in a vineyard, and I did this show, and like 30 people came, and then those it was the middle of nowhere there to get a ferry boat there. But then those 30 people went and told everyone. And so then we did another one a month later, and 100 people came. And then by the end of the summer, we were getting 300 people in the middle of nowhere. That’s more than what the Comedy Store in Leicester Square gets in London. And then by October that year, I’d sold out the Imperial theater in st John, which was an 800 seater, which is a bigger, that’s a that’s a bigger room than what I was playing in England. So so it all happened in in six months. So really this, the book is about the journey here. And there’s maybe only five or six chapters devoted to my early childhood years, because essentially, we decided to focus the book would be, what is it about New Brunswick in Atlantic Canada that made me kind of find myself, but also shaped everything. And so really, we focused on the parts of my childhood, like the fact that, you know, being bullied at school and not and wanting to be in a place where that kind of behavior wouldn’t be tolerated, which, again, rural places, you know, people care for you more. So that first book was published by goose lane, and they, interestingly, I did the contract conversation started about a year and a half ago for the second book that is called attention, please, about late in life, ADHD diagnosis. And it’s essentially, that’s essentially, it’s a similar book in the you know, it’s a collection of 44 stories throughout my life, things that I did and have done that possibly all were connected to this, but I didn’t know that at the time. Plus also, you know, things that have happened subsequent to diagnosis and, and it’s with the same publisher, Goose lane, and I actually just signed the contract about an hour before we started the this call. Yeah, so there’s something about you, Shawn, you bring good luck to people.
SS:
I try, positive energy. But congratulations. That’s, that’s huge, man. I’m so happy for you. That’s incredible.
JM:
Really, really kind mate. Thank you. Know, it’s um, I can’t wait, like, I have to say, writing the first one was the most fun I’ve ever promoting. It was the most fun I’ve ever had. Like, like, I loved doing a book tour, because, unlike with Stan. Where every day is filled with the anxiety and the nerves with a book toe, even if no, even if only five people show up, it doesn’t matter. I’m not having to perform. I was able to be myself, I guess. And I think what was really eye opening with writing the second book, especially on with the subject matter of ADHD, is that in the first book, not that I was holding back, but I didn’t know how it was going to land, very nervous, like how it’s going to be perceived. Is it is it too silly? Is it not funny enough? Is it too serious? Am I being too honest? And interestingly, it was the very honest bit that people resonate, that seem to resonate most, and people I’ve seen the most comments from people about so it kind of gave me the permission to be way more open in this second one. So it might be a bit too much for people, but honestly, is the best policy.
SS:
Yeah, you know, I truly believe James, like when people families ask me for resources and they tell me that they’ve they’ve read all these books from different doctors and specialists, I tell them to stop, like I’d much rather learn through another individual’s experiences and by somebody who studied somebody in a different area and then reported, you know, something to be said for the human experience?
JM:
I agree, because the great thing with the human experience is it’s that person’s experience, and you can take from it if you want to or not, and you can connect with something or not connect with it. Whereas I agree whenever I’ve read or listened to ADHD books by doctors or so forth, I find myself feeling less of myself if I’m like, Well, that’s it, because they’re giving you this kind of, you know, the almost ultimatum like, this is how it is, and this is what, this is what, what, what will happen to you? Or this is why, if there isn’t something that happens to you, you feel weak or like you failed somehow. So yeah, I guess that’s the thing is that, yeah, this mine is simply, this is, these are the things that happened to me, and this is how I cope with it.
SS:
Absolutely, that’s amazing. James, what advice would you give to somebody who wants to get into comedy but struggles with ADHD?
JM:
Good question. I mean, I mean, I would say, lean into it, embrace it and allow the I mean, it really is something that, like, like, I say, being on a stage and all those tangents. I mean, I guess it’s easy for me to say now, 20 years in, like, like, leaning into that. But I think, I think it’s that thing about, I mean, the trick, really, I think, for anyone looking to get into comedy is it’s just that you’ve got to get on a stage as soon as possible. Like, it’s the, it’s because it’s the, literally, the only art form that can’t be rehearsed any other way. Like, and it’s, and it’s so unfair and so ludicrous. But because, obviously, a painter doesn’t, you know, doesn’t have a live audience for the first you know, 100 mistakes they make, and a writer doesn’t show you their unfinished book, and a guitarist doesn’t get on stage until they can actually play the guitar, whereas with stand up, like in professional comedians, talk about the nightmare and the and how hard it is to generate new material, and write new stuff and workshop these new jokes, as I was saying earlier, but when you’re starting out, not only is it all new, you also don’t have a performance style yet. So really the only way to do it is to get up and and there’s a lot of this in my first book about that process, but it’s I asked so many comedians this this question when I was starting out, and everyone kind of basically had the same basically had the same answer, which was just, gig, gig, gig, like, any chance you can get to be on a on a stage, and, yeah, and it’s just, essentially, it’s getting up there and saying words until there’s laughs. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, in some ways a similar science. I’m also a massive believer that anyone can do it like, there’s like, it’s not because, as we’ve established and again, and this is one of the things that attracted me to to I was obsessed with comedy as a teenager, because it was the, one of the few things that kind of made me happy and cheered me up from like, troubles I was having. But then when I read autobiographies by comedians, I’m like, wow, this is crazy. They they seem to be odd balls like me, and yet they enable the same social anxieties. How do these two things tie in? Invariably, the class clown is not the person that makes the good comedian and and also, no one’s like the finished product to begin with. Yeah, so and so, to my mind, there’s things that I don’t think I could ever do. Like I look at like what a mechanic does, and I’m like, I could never figure that out. Maybe I could, maybe I couldn’t, but I truly be with stand up, anyone that is willing to get on stage, over and over again. And that was really when I started out. There was a lot of comedians far better than me, who gave it up because they could didn’t like they couldn’t take the constant knockbacks, they couldn’t take the bad parts. And I think this is one of the things that why there are so many neurodiverse and so many comedians with so many comedians with ADHD and autism. And add because I. Um, there’s something about coming back again and again and again and being willing to take those knocks, and then also the obvious dopamine hits of like, you know. And for me, I mean, I am never happier than like the day after a good gig, you know, it completely, essentially, I would say like, like, and I would say, for me, it’s like that. That’s the, those are my that’s my meds. Like, like, getting the the buzz from the gig day after, I basically feel like, how I imagine non neurodiverse people fail, which is just, I’m just like, a bit like, again, the depiction of, like, John Travolta in Pulp Fiction. But again, again, it’s a horrible…
SS:
Seems more like Al Bundy, where you sit down on the couch, put your hand in your pants.
JM:
Yeah, there’s that, yeah, but I think it’s like when John Travolta is like, like, is on heroin, and he’s driving along. And again, it’s terribly irresponsible piece of filmmaking, because it makes it look, of course, it then goes on to show Uma Thurman’s terrible OD, but him driving on and just being like her, like, like, being back, that’s how I feel. I feel that kind of warmth after, after, after a good gig. And that’s, that’s, yeah, the dopamine flooding through me. It’s awesome.
SS:
James, thank you so much for being our guest today. Please keep up the good work.
JM:
Thank you so much, John. I appreciate you very much, my friend and I do hope I was just rereading the beautiful article you wrote for the magazine all those years ago. I do hope we can link to that in the description here so people can read your beautiful words, because they were again, I’m sure that was one of the one of those tipping point things that led me to the great revelation.
SS:
I appreciate that. Yeah.
