When Holidays Are Tough | Spectrumly Speaking ep. 120
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IN THIS EPISODE:
(AUDIO – 25 mins) In this episode, hosts Haley Moss and Dr. Lori Butts go guest-less to discuss dealing with Holidays when they can be tough or triggering.
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
For more about Haley, check out her website: haleymoss.net And look for her on Twitter: twitter.com/haleymossart For more about Dr. Butts, check out her website: cfiexperts.com
Have a question or story for us? E-mail us at SpectrumlySpeaking@gmail.com
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:
HALEY MOSS (HM):
Hello, and welcome to Spectrumly Speaking. I’m Haley Moss and author, artist attorney and I’m autistic. As usual. I have a wonderful co host, and I’m joined here today by her…
DR LORI BUTTS (LB):
Haley, you’re so sweet. I’m Dr. Lori Butts. I’m a psychologist and the attorney. Did you ever know that your intro has four A’s? It’s all A. Is that on purpose?
HM:
Yes, exactly. The only way I actually remember what I’m going to say,
LB:
Oh, my goodness, I just it just dawned on me. They’re all A’s.
HM:
I think it also keeps it nice and organized. It does. It does. It’s easier for me to remember because I’m like, wait, I said, What were you saying what it’s like, oh, yeah, right. They’re all in that same family of words that it sounds sort of similar.
LB:
Right? four A’s? It’s what is that alliteration baby? Remember grammar?
HM:
Neither can I sorry. Sorry, everyone. If we have any grammar nerds that listen to us, please inform us. Right. Right. I think it is alliteration, but I might be wrong.
LB:
I might be I might be wrong, too. Anyway, I just I just popped out my head when you when you were talking. So how are you?
HM:
I’m fine. I’m just tired. I think everybody’s tired.
LB:
Probably. Do you have a restful weekend ahead of you?
HM:
I hope so. I hope so. I’m trying to get some stuff ready for the holidays. Because somehow it is like, getting really close to the holidays. And I don’t feel like I’m ready for it. I went,
LB:
Yes. I don’t think anybody’s ready for the holidays. It’s strange. It’s just kind of here.
HM:
I feel…
LB:
Especially in South Florida because the weather doesn’t change too much. It just is sadly cooler. You know, get the benefit of that, like kind of fall walk into here. We you know, but here we are.
HM:
See the thing that really throws? Yeah, see, the thing that really throws me off is it’s Halloween. And then it’s the holidays. Like we don’t get time to focus on like Thanksgiving, if that’s something that you celebrate in the US. It’s just the holidays, like all of the winter holidays suddenly happen and start getting marketed the day after Halloween. And you’re like, oh, okay, because it’s the holidays. Right? It’s still it was really strange accessing all those like cute little elves and things and gnomes when I was going to like the store. And I was like, It’s October 30. Right? I remember that feeling. And just being very confused now like, oh, yeah, we’re moving right along, I guess it’s the holiday.
LB:
It is. It is. And this this year, the one thing that that is kind of in the back of my mind is all these issues about supply chain and ordering gifts and things like that they could be late. And so that’s putting in, at least in my mind, like this extra layer of pressure to get things done sooner than later. I’m not much of a store shopper. I’m more of an online shopper. Because I just need the time. And yeah, it’s it’s too difficult in person. For me. It’s become that way, which, you know, when I was young, I could never imagine only shopping online. But my, my habits have changed significantly. But but you know, that kind of pressure to make sure that things are here in time to to do that for everybody? And what if there are not other things that are out of your control, and
HM:
it’s just exhausting. It’s just exhausting. It is. And I know that this season is really difficult for a lot of folks for not even just because if you’re an online shop or store shopper, but there’s so many other things that go into this time of year. So many, so many. And that kind of brings us to our what we’re going to really be getting into today as well. So we don’t have a guest for you all to meet today. So you get to listen to the two of us. And we’re really talking about how the holidays are starting up again. But it can be really triggering and difficult for a lot of folks and also this idea of seasonal depression. So I know that we hear that this is the most wonderful time of the year. And what if you don’t feel that way? What if this is something that’s extremely difficult for you? What if it’s maybe reminding you of a loss? What if it’s something that you aren’t going home because of the pandemic or you’re getting used to going back home because of the pandemic or maybe you don’t feel that there is somewhere to go home to anymore? There’s so many things I know for so many people this year in particular is probably very difficult.
LB:
I’m sure it’s very difficult for a lot of people especially around loss and grief. and changing a routine. So, you know, last year, it was kind of a given that the holidays were a wash. And I mean, I think for most people, he would help we were, we were staying home and separated and just like, Okay, we’ll do it next year. Well, now here’s this year, and things aren’t necessarily better. But people are out traveling. So if you don’t feel comfortable, you know, traveling to meet family and you want to stay safe, there’s pressure on that, there’s, you know, there’s all kinds of different new dynamics on top of possibly losing somebody in your family to COVID. Or, you know, just losing somebody in your family in general. I know there’s a lot of loss of holidays tend to be routine, there tend to be like this expected kind of thing, you know, we do and our family does XYZ, you know, and this is our tradition, these are a lot of tradition. Well, when there’s people missing or changes to those traditions, that can be unsettling and difficult to manage, on top of all the other things you just discussed. So and, and we, you know, us in South Florida, we don’t, we don’t have this issue, but a lot of other places do especially with the time change is the weather. And it getting darker earlier and to have having gray skies and that kind of seasonal…
HM:
That messes with me. Yeah, it’s ruining my sleep schedule. Mm hmm. And I do think about when we’re talking about loss at the holidays. So I know I’m very fortunate that I haven’t lost anyone to COVID this year. But last holiday season, we had to say goodbye to our family dog. And we made that decision. Right during Thanksgiving last year. And I’m it makes me very anxious for the holidays, because it’s been a year and my the lat usually, for Thanksgiving in the before times, we used to go on vacation, we used to do something else. And we were home last year, and we knew that some we knew that it was coming up to time and we had to like, make those tough decisions as a family. And I think it’s gonna be really strange having holidays without a four legged friend begging at the table. And because I remember the night of Thanksgiving, we were just preparing ourselves for this immense loss. Right? So for me, I’m I’m anxious about it, I don’t really know how to, I don’t really know what to think. But it’s something that’s been on my mind, and I’m like, this is going to be hard. And I can’t imagine your pain, if you have lost a loved one, a human loved one in the last year, and you realize they’re not going to be at your table, or they’re not going to be at a gathering later in the holiday season as well. So it’s definitely something that I know is weighing on me and it’s making me kind of dread the whole thing, my mom’s like, Oh, we’re getting catering, we’re doing this, we’re doing that, like, it’s just us. And I’m also like, I’m not sure how I feel right now, because it’s just a lot of feelings.
LB:
Right? And, and one thing you can do is a talk, I mean, you know, talk to your parents about it, and maybe creating a new tradition to honor your loved one, that creating a new tradition around the loss tends to help people, you know, feel like they’re honoring the loss and, and not avoiding, you know, not avoiding it and not keeping those emotions like tucked inside. And having a new routine that that makes that that you know, dog or loved one or close to your heart and in your mind and in your thoughts during these times, and creating kind of a new tradition of honor is a really good strategy to, to kind of make it through and to, to be able to to discuss those feelings with someone that is compassionate and can understand with that with your situation. And…
HM:
Sorry, I was just thinking out loud so that this is just hard. And I think that if this is hard for you for whatever the reason, whether it’s grief or maybe it’s that you haven’t had great relationships with family members, or they don’t understand you and that your nerd virgin or something like there’s just like, you are still loved. And I think that’s something I just want to say.
LB:
Right, and reaching out to someone to, for that support is really important. And a lot of a lot of neurodivergent people have have difficulties with reaching out. And so it’s important to have those skills all year long to practice those skills. So when tough times come like, you know, holiday that sad or, or difficult loss or something like that, then you’re, you’re more equipped to try and do it for yourself. Because and, you know, it’s a lot of skills building and a lot of reaching out because isolation is, is really difficult for all humans, no matter, you know, how their brain works. We know that isolation is just, it’s not healthy. We’re as human beings, we’re social beings. The way we go about socialization may be different for everybody. But we still, you know, want to be around people exactly, that we want to feel connected to something. Right, exactly.
HM:
Whatever. Also thinking about younger folks, because I know that for them reaching out might be a lot different, or they might not have the words to realize how to reach out so Right. Right. I think that there’s also still a responsibility of caregivers and allies. I don’t think it should all just be following on us like, oh, go reach out. Right. So to check in. Exactly. And maybe when, maybe not only because of COVID, or something, but maybe when family members or others visit, maybe they don’t want to give those hugs, or maybe it’s a sensory thing that there’s so many things going on, and how do we make sure that they’re being supported? Right? I just have lots of feelings, because this is hard for a lot of different people for a lot of different reasons.
LB:
Correct. And so it’s hard to say one thing, or two things for everybody, because everybody’s so different. And everybody’s everybody’s, what’s the word I’m looking for? I’m not going to say everybody’s needs are different. Cuz I, you know, everybody has the same needs, but how they go about fulfilling those needs is different have. That’s fair. Yeah. And so being being keyed into, you know, like, if a child is misbehaving, a lot of times it’s attention seeking. It’s not, you know, they, they,
HM:
Trying to communicate something. Exactly, exactly. And it’s like even that, oh, go give someone a hug. Like, if you don’t feel comfortable with that, I think that that in a child isn’t gonna be able to talk about consent the same way that an adult? Well, they might. So that’s up to the adults to be able to say, Do you want to give this person a hug? And not reprimand them? If they say no, right? And pray? There are people I don’t want to give hugs to? Maybe it’s because I feel guilty? Maybe because they smell funny. I don’t know. Like,
LB:
Exactly, or they don’t feel like being touched that day.
HM:
Exactly. Right. I think about little kids. And now, especially at that time of year that we do have those other learning opportunities for things like consent, but I think it’s really important that we realize that especially young people might not have the language to share the thing that they that we expect them to be sharing, right? Or they might not be able to tell us like I’m very anxious about this change in routine the way that an adult might just go, I am very anxious about this change in my routine. Right? Right, a child is probably not going to say that. Right? They might just say my stomach hurts. Can I go play upstairs? Can I do literally anything else? Right? Because they don’t have that vocabulary. They might not have, they might have that self awareness, but they don’t have the vocabulary that we do.
LB:
Right? Right. And even adults, sometimes don’t or feel uncomfortable expressing it in that way.
HM:
So I think we saw I think all year long, like you’re saying we have to make space for people to be able to express themselves. And realize that this isn’t just unique to the holidays.
LB:
Right. But things get heightened at the holidays.
HM:
The holidays, I think is very triggering for a lot of people for exactly, all sorts of different reasons. And there’s nothing wrong if that’s you. I think that’s something I really want people to know is like, hey, if this is a difficult time of year for you, that doesn’t mean it’s a moral failing, or that you’re the bridge. Right? You know, because I think it’s so easy to just assume that you’re a Grinch or you’re just not in the spirit, like people get very judgy about holidays, that if I say I’m not in the mood for it, because of whatever reason, it’s just assumed you’re the Grinch and that you just don’t care or you don’t want to do it or you are just not in the holiday spirit. Right now. It’s just a lot to take in. It is it is and I think folks don’t always recognize that and I wish that they did.
LB:
Well, hopefully. Hopefully we can make a difference and that people recognize that You know, it’s just another day with a lot of layers of expectations on it.
HM:
Or multiple days, depending on what you celebrate. So it could be multiple days, it could be a week of having people from out of town, it could be, we’re going to two months of a family member prepping and cooking and catering and doing who knows what and setting up decorations? Like it’s not just one day. Right? Right. And especially if you celebrate a more prolonged holiday, like Hanukkah, or Kwanzaa or anything that’s multiple days. It’s also that as well is just, there’s a lot going on.
LB:
Right. And I think I think the expectations are like the key kind of piece to this. So the holiday spirit are expected to be in the holiday spirit. I don’t even know what that means.
HM:
You’re supposed to be giving and selfless and excited. I don’t know maybe having like a peppermint latte from Starbucks. I haven’t quite figured that out either.
LB:
For days on end, right. But while juggling work…
HM:
I would like the neurotypicals to tell me what the holiday spirit? Because they don’t they just expect you to act in this way. And there’s no clear rule or guide. Right?
LB:
Exactly, exactly. It’s not clear whatsoever.
HM:
It’s very strange. It’s very strange when you think about it.
LB:
It is it is. But it should be a time where people you know, support and care about each other. How about that, or, or recognize that, that other people are important. And you know, and give gratitude to their families or friends or whoever’s in their lives to just spend time with each other? And, and, you know, to me, that’s what that’s the most important piece is just it’s not about the gifts.
HM:
It’s about the gratitude.
LB:
Exactly.
HM:
I like that. And sometimes you might not feel like you have what to be grateful for. But I think sometimes we have to look at this very it could be I don’t like doing the it could be worse, right? But sometimes I think you should if you’re able to feel grateful for having like food on your table or over your head just exactly. There’s something in your life that you are probably grateful for, even if you might not be able to immediately identify it. Because not everything turned out the way that you had hoped this year. Right? This year’s didn’t record. It is it was last year, but this year is off. Yeah.
LB:
This year has been I think, even more strange than last year, because last year, everybody was kind of expected to like hunker down and stay now. It’s like, it’s weird. Are we done with this? Do we go out and about do we stay? What’s safe? What’s not? I think it’s, it’s confusing.
HM:
It’s very confusing. And what do you feel comfortable with? And what happens when you don’t have the same level of comfort that other people do? Right? Like, just doesn’t make it’s tough?
LB:
Yeah. And people are still, you know, getting, people are still getting sick. And you know, our health care workers are still stressed and over extended.
HM:
I know we got to make if you are a health care worker this holiday season, we are grateful for you. And I hope that you find a little bit of time to take care of yourself.
LB:
Right? Right. And at the end of the day, that’s, you know, the all of this is, is is about self care. And, you know, if you start noticing that you’re feeling anxious, depressed, things like that, things that you can do for yourself, to work through those emotions. And then like you said, the allies and the caretakers, if you notice that the person in your life is starting to act differently, and to be grumpy, or irritable or agitated or whatever, to check in with that person to see what’s going on. And more likely than not, it could be a reaction to the change the expectations, the weather, you know, all of those things.
HM:
There’s lots going on. And it’s okay, if they don’t have a perfect answer for you. Because it’s really hard to identify and talk about feelings for a lot of us.
LB:
Right. And so supporting that person all year long to be able to identify feelings, feeling safe, to express themselves. feeling safe to be able to say no, or this is too much or, you know, I’m overwhelmed right now or this isn’t. I’m not comfortable with this, you know, all of those kinds of ways to to communicate. Right? Right. Another a word.
HM:
I did check for us. It isn’t indeed an alliteration. We did have it right.
LB:
Oh, right.
HM:
Good job. I had to make sure that I had to make sure I had an answer for you by the end of the day.
LB:
Good multitasking Haley.
HM:
It felt important. I’m sure there’s someone here who thought it was important. So if that’s you, I’m glad that it was that I, somehow my, my poor little brain agreed with you.
LB:
It’s great. And you know, just more about just to kind of circle back to the holidays, it’s still important to keep your routine, your daily routine of exercise, eating, right, sleeping, you know, getting enough sleep. You know, of course, Alcohol is a depressant, which comes around a lot at holiday time. So you got to monitor how much you’re drinking sugar can, you know really put kind of your brain in a wacky place, there’s a lot of sugar. So monitoring and keeping your kind of regular schedule that keeps you on an even keel is also really important during the holidays, to keep all of those self care, things routines, keep those going, man, it helps manage the stress and, and keep you feeling like you’re not making so many different changes in your life and all of that.
HM:
And if you’re starting a new routine, that’s okay to write. Because I know that eventually we’re probably going to talk about the new year, I know that if you’re planning on making routine changes before, during or after New Year’s to that’s okay to write for whatever your motivation or reason is, right. I just want everyone to feel loved and supported.
LB:
Oh, I hope everyone does, too. But you you know, you have such a great support system with your family. And, and hopefully, there’s lots of other people that they don’t have that in their biological family, they have that with extended family, friends, things like that. Because that’s, that’s what, that’s what life and the holidays are about.
HM:
And if there’s something you’d rather do by yourself, that’s okay, too.
LB:
Right? That doesn’t mean you’re not loved and supported. You just need some time to yourself, to chill out or to do whatever you want to do. gotta carve out time in every day to do something that you enjoy. For you, whether it’s five minutes, or you know, whatever it is something. Yep. Do we do we? Do we overload people with ideas about how to manage themselves during the holidays?
HM:
I hope not. And if we did, then just come back to this, you can break it down. So segment by segment. And hopefully, there’s something you can walk away with. Hopefully, I hope that we were able to help you or brought you a little bit of peace talking and realize that maybe you’re not so alone feeling or maybe that it’s okay that you feel the way that you do. I think that’s kind of what we’re going for. Right? And no matter what, I hope that your holiday season brings you peace, I hope that it has some kind of meaning to you. And if it doesn’t, and you’d rather just take that time for yourself, or if you sleep or whatever it is that makes you happy that you’re able to find time for that. And I think that’s something that I don’t want to just speak. I think I could just speak for myself on but I have faith that all of us here at different brands want you to have a joyful and peaceful and meaningful or renewing feeling holiday season, no matter who you are or what you celebrate. That’s perfect. And I think I think that might be a good note for us to wrap up this conversation with as well because I don’t I don’t like that Happy Holidays thing right away. Because like maybe it’s not a happy time for you.
LB:
Right, right. But I like the restful, rejuvenation, restorative, you know, take your time to heal…
HM:
Exactly in it and hopefully that mean in for you if that’s inner and outer peace as well, because that family tensions can be high. You might have a lot of big disagreements, but if you’re able to find peace in there somewhere I wish that for you.
LB:
That’s beautiful Haley.
HM:
So for the rest of us, be sure to check out differentbrains.org And don’t forget to check out their Twitter and Instagram @diffbrains and also look for them on Facebook. If you’re looking for me, you can find me on all major social media or at Haleymoss.com.
LB:
I can be found at CFIexperts.com. Please be sure to subscribe and rate us on iTunes and don’t hesitate to send questions to spectrumlyspeaking@gmail.com. Let’s keep the conversation going.
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
