Promoting Yourself | Spectrumly Speaking ep. 151
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IN THIS EPISODE:
In this episode, hosts Haley Moss and Dr. Lori Butts discuss the challenges of self-promotion.
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
For more about Haley, check out her website: haleymoss.net And look for her on Twitter: twitter.com/haleymossart For more about Dr. Butts, check out her website: cfiexperts.com
Have a question or story for us? E-mail us at SpectrumlySpeaking@gmail.com
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION: Note: the following transcription was automatically generated. Some imperfections may exist.
HALEY MOSS (HM):
Hello, and welcome to Spectrumly Speaking. I’m Haley Moss, an author, artist, attorney, and I’m autistic. I feel very lucky that I get to share the Spectrumly stage as usual, and I’m joined by my lovely co host, the one the only.
DR LORI BUTTS (LB):
Hi, I’m Dr. Lori Butts, I’m a psychologist and an attorney.
HM:
So today we’re doing things a little bit differently than usual. And it’s actually my turn to talk about projects that I’ve been working on. And probably my least favorite thing to do in the entire world, which is: self promotion. Oh, that’s like everybody’s least favorite thing. It feels really awkward talking about yourself. I don’t know if you have that same issue. Talk about things I’ve done, whether it’s accomplishments or things I’m working on, or, “Hey, I wrote something or I did something you should buy this.” It’s a very uncomfortable feeling. Yeah.
LB:
Well, it is for a lot of people. And I, you know, I always say it, especially women, we’re not socialized to be, you know, talk about us. We’re socialized to be more, you know…
HM:
Passive.
LB:
Yeah, exactly.
HM:
So it’s also weird for me, because I do get honored a lot. And I’m always very humbled by it. But it’s a very strange experience that people celebrate my accomplishments, way more than I probably meant. And I also have that somewhat impostor syndrome feeling, you know, like, some kid who was trying to figure it out in so many ways, right, I have to take a step back. So I know at this time of the year, I get to breathe a little bit, I get to reflect on things that have happened. I don’t have the constant grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. And I get to say, Oh, well, I did a lot of very cool stuff. So since we are talking about self promotion, I guess I have to talk about some of the cool stuff I’ve gotten to do.
LB:
Yeah, I’d love to hear about it, too.
HM:
So probably the biggest, I don’t know how I feel about this thing that’s happened to me this year, is I made the Forbes 30 under 30 list in Miami, which is fantastic. I have no qualms about saying that is pretty kick ass like, very honest about that. Very strange feeling when I found out about it, like I’m like, I’m not a, you know, multi gazillion dollar startup business leader, I am a person who isn’t considered myself an educator, trying to help the public trying to do something good for other people. So it was a very weird feeling, especially when I saw who all the other winners were. It’s like, Oh, we got all this seed money. We did all this stuff. And it felt very strange being recognized. And I’m like, You know what, this is not just about me, this is kind of a bigger win for our community. This is about the accomplishments of what we do about advocacy as like a labor of love. Like I had a very different take on it when I stepped back and like, Yeah, I’m gonna go, and I went to the summit back in October in Cleveland, like, you know, I will get to learn, I will get to be around all these innovators and stuff. And I’m like, You know what, I did something different. I did something cool. I am proud of myself. And I finally learned to say, “Yeah, this is awesome. And I’m proud of myself.”
LB:
Great.
HM:
One of the cool things.
Why do you think it took the Forbes thing for you to be able to do that?
HM:
I don’t know. And I felt really strange about it at the same time, since so many people look at something like making a Forbes list that are having a certain accomplishment, especially when there’s an age attached to it. It’s kind of like this pinnacle of success. And that, to me, is a very strange thing. Like my life would not be, you know, made or broken, per se, by whether or not I made some list based on how old I am. So before I know many of our listeners have are probably wondering because I’d mentioned it’s under 30. Because I am 29. Last year riding the under 30 train. And it’s a lovely feeling. And I think that so many people put so much kind of pressure onto those things that it’s a weird thing like, well, by all accounts, you made it. But that’s not how I define like, Oh, I’m successful. It’s just something I’m proud of. Like there’s so many things that are not on the scale of national or local recognition or international recognition depending on how you look at something like a Forbes list that I feel very proud of myself for and I don’t even feel like I had to post about it on social media and like I feel kind of icky about this. And I’m like, You know what, I just own it. And people were very nice. I was afraid they’re gonna think I’m really self centered that I’m sharing this and people are genuinely happy for you because I again, really was honest with my following and said “hey, look at this more as a win for our community. This isn’t really about me.” And I had a couple colleagues and friends say “it is about you, own it” and I was like you know what, I need to kind of take a step back for a minute too. I really did look at it. As you know when one of us moves up, we all move up The other self promotion things that I have to do is I didn’t talk about this actually, this wasn’t really in the plan for today’s episode. But I wrote another book this year.
LB:
Wow!
HM:
I don’t have a release date or plan. But I am very proud that I got it done because a lot has happened in my personal and professional life that made it feel like an impossible task. And I am dreading the moment that I have to really promote and go, “Hey, there’s a release date for this thing, here’s what its all about please, buy this thing.” And I think books are really strange in that, because pre orders determine a lot of success for authors.
LB:
Oh, really?
HM:
Also, yeah. And was also strange about book sales, that I think a lot of people don’t realize is you don’t get the majority of the money as the author. Like, it’s not like, Hey, I’m going to sell you this product for $20 and $18 goes into my pocket, or $2, goes to my operating costs, like that’s not how book sales work, right? And if anyone knows, any authors, or anyone in publishing, basically, how that works, is you tech, you technically get a percentage based on net sales. So that percentage depends on who your publisher is, or what’s the story there. So there’s not really as much skin in the game of, hey, please buy all the books because I’m going to make a fortune. Like, that’s not how that works. It’s like I worked hard on this. And I want you to care and read what I have to say, right? And it’s still a very awkward feeling, having to push that and not just put yourself out there, per se, but really go hey, I did this. And I’m a very private person. I’m very introverted. I’ve been working on this for who knows how long now, at least a year. And I’ve always talked about it in the abstract of, oh, I’m working on another book. And I never had like, I got it done. Like, it still doesn’t feel real to me. Because obviously, there’s still rounds of edits, there’s still other things with this manuscript that needs to be done. A name needs to be finalized, the cover needs to be designed and picked out and all this other stuff. But I did the thing. I don’t feel great about promoting it. It feels weird on Spectrumly that we decided to Haley you should talk about stuff you’ve done.
LB:
Yeah, you do a lot.
HM:
I actually spoke to someone earlier this week or last week, that interviewed me for their podcast. And they said they listened to Spectrumly for a very long time. And I was like, “Wow, that’s awesome.” And then they went, “you know, I looked you up after the fact and Googled you, and went to your website because you mentioned it at the end of the show.” And I said, “Okay”, and this person goes “I didn’t realize how much you did, because you don’t really talk about it on Spectrumly.” And I’m like, Yeah, that sounds about right. Because usually, as you know, we spend a lot of time guestlist with each other, just having a conversation about a relevant topic. Or we have a fantastic third person who educates us and informs and entertains our audience. Right. So an interesting way to look back as you realize, just you know, even this platform is not say about me even though we are the faces of it as the posts right. Now, now, just some things that kind of float around my head when we talk about self promotion.
LB:
Yeah, we’re definitely lacking in that space.
HM:
Yeah. And especially because, as you know, it’s all promotion, these things can benefit us selfishly. I know that we don’t do a great job talking about it. Like I know, you don’t really talk about your practice on Spectrumly either, even though I’m sure there’s many folks who might be potential clients that would benefit like you never know.
LB:
Right.
HM:
When I also learned with self promotion over the years, and I learned this when I was in prac, in law practice. One of the partners that I worked with always said it’s better than other people promote you versus you promoting you. Like if I went networking “I’m a really awesome lawyer”, nobody’s gonna take it seriously. Right? But if you introduce me and said Haley’s are really awesome lawyer would take that a lot more seriously. But I know that I’m a really awesome lawyer, which is neither here nor there. But you know what I’m trying to say.
LB:
Exactly.
HM:
So I think of — how do you find a buddy to basically be your cheerleader?
LB:
Exactly, exactly.
HM:
Especially if you’re someone who does not enjoy this stuff, or you’re like us and introverted or you were socialized, like women like we were, and that you don’t always know how to take pride in what you do.
LB:
Right.
HM:
And own it.
LB:
And own it. Yeah. Yeah, we all need these skills, that’s for sure.
HM:
Exactly. And I’ve looked at your accomplishments even like you are a literal expert.
LB:
Sure.
HM:
I mean, one, it’s in the name of your website. And two, when you tell me about the cool work that you have actually done outside of Spectruml,y like you are literally an expert. You would never know just from talking to you.
LB:
I hope that’s good thing.
HM:
That’s a good thing. No, because you’re just very down to earth. You’re very chill. You and I have a good conversation. We don’t be like, look at all this great stuff. That’s the person you sit there and you roll your eyes and you’re like, please just shut up.
LB:
Right? Exactly, exactly. You never want to be that person.
HM:
Exactly. Which is why I think, at least here, it’s my job to be your hype woman. So meabwhile we get to hype up our guests.
LB:
Yeah. And we need to hype you up a lot more. I hype you up. But outside of this a lot to anybody that I speak to, because you, you are so amazing.
HM:
And I know, we also try to create space for others to self promote. So you know how most of our interviews go. So how can we find you? How can our listeners learn more about you? Because I know sometimes our guests even are the same as me here. And they don’t want to tell you about all their projects.
LB:
Right.
HM:
And I am sure when my book does come out, I’m going to be here in kind of the hot seat, and having to say, Oh, and you can order it from Amazon or whatever. And it’s gonna be like, Oh, wow, I actually had to say this today. Usually its my job to encourage somebody else to do it.
LB:
So you’ve written two books in three years?
HM:
is that would have been three and three years.
LB:
Three in three years? Oh, my gosh.
HM:
I wrote two — so I did two manuscripts. In 2020, which, you know, being unemployed, mostly or self employed, mostly unemployed for part of that time, means what else are you going to do, I guess, and one of them was planned before the COVID hit, and the other was planned after or during. And getting to done almost back to back was an adventure. So I had “Great Minds” come out in June of 2021. Then I had “The Young Autistic Adults Independence Handbook” come out in November of 2021. So that was like, a couple months in between. And I feel like I didn’t give them both the same amount of love in the promotion aspect. Because I was like, wow, everyone’s gonna be like, What did you do writing two books isn’t like a year. It’s like, that’s just how the timelines kind of shook out. And also, I had the time to do it. While this one I had under contract for probably about a year and a half or so. And it took me forever to get it done. And I don’t have a release date, I don’t have any more information that I can share. Because I don’t have that information to share with you.
LB:
Well, I can’t wait to hear all about it. That’s exciting.
HM:
So I think what I want our listeners to know, as awkward as it is to promote yourself as own it, because I think we both had a good talk about owning it. And don’t be afraid to find your cheerleader hype person whatever that may be, because that is someone who could be your strategic ally that, you know, your friends, colleagues, whoever, enough to hype them up. So when I used to go networking more often, I don’t enjoy it, I never really did. I would like to have somebody to go with and kind of tag team so that I can hype them up and pass them off to somebody to talk to, and they will do the same for me. If someone else does, it just makes it easier. And it says here to talk about your friends and people that you care about.
LB:
It really is, it really is.
HM:
And if you’re you have the means and marketing. I also though social media can sometimes be very personal or impersonal. It’s just and keep in mind, especially if you are self promoting. And I think this is something as an audience member, like when people promote their products and their services and things to me, that I’ve learned from many other small business owners as well is that support doesn’t mean you have to buy their thing. You can support them by sharing or saying, hey, this might be a great fit for my friend, or liking their posts or sharing their posts or commenting on their posts. So it shows up in more people’s feeds, who might buy the product or service or whatever, that there are so many ways that you can exchange support as currency without actually giving money. And I think that’s really big for a lot of us to learn is that promotion and, you know, supporting each other doesn’t mean that you always have to pull out your wallet, which I think is always why people are afraid is you feel bad asking people to donate people to give money. People to pay money, even if your services are entirely worth it. And that support comes in many different flavors and that’s okay to ask for support and all of those different flavors. Especially when it’s part of your job. Because we all need to survive.
LB:
Right. Exactly. Exactly.
HM:
And for better or worse. Money is kind of part of that.
LB:
It is. The eating, the rent.
HM:
Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, a roof doesn’t just come out of nowhere. And I used to say that a lot whenever I would work with clients that I knew would originally just kind of be like, whatever, like look, I’m like most people I love what I do, but I also need to keep my lights on. And usually people are very understanding when they realize “Oh, it’s just you and you want to keep your lights on like of course.” That’s all about perspective, I think.
LB:
Absolutely.
HM:
So don’t be afraid to promote yourself. Take stock. And even if I don’t know you, I’m proud of you.
LB:
Yeah, exactly.
HM:
I think that’s a good way to keep that energy going for all of us, right?
LB:
Yes, absolutely.
HM:
And I think that’s a good place to end: that I’m proud of you, whatever you are promoting out there. And I hope that our listeners will actually share a little bit about what they’re up to, so we can help support them.
LB:
Absolutely.
HM:
You never know, we might find some amazing guests that have in the process and then they can share with all of you as well.
LB:
And we’ll keep supporting you and trying to make sure we don’t overlook one of your books like I just did, or all the other accomplishments you have going on, Haley. You’re hard to keep up with.
HM:
I feel very humbled and honored that I get to just do the stuff that I do. So I just, I always tell people I get to have a lot of fun. Yeah, you work hard for the rest of us. Be sure to check out differentbrains.org and check out their Twitter and Instagram @DiffBrains. And don’t forget to look for them on Facebook. If you are looking for yours truly, again, self promotion, our theme, you can visit me at Haleymoss.com or say hello to me on all major social media. Looking forward to connecting.
LB:
I can be found at CFIexperts.com. Please be sure to subscribe and rate us on Apple podcasts or your podcast app of choice. And don’t hesitate to send questions to Spectrumlyspeaking@gmail.com. Let’s keep the conversation going.
Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.
