Cover Image - Becoming An “AUntrepreneur”, With Toni Boucher | Spectrumly Speaking Ep. 119

Becoming an “AUntrepreneur”, with Toni Boucher | Spectrumly Speaking ep. 119

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IN THIS EPISODE:

(AUDIO – 35 mins) In this episode, hosts Haley Moss and Dr. Lori Butts speak with self-advocate Toni Boucher. Toni is the author of Autism Translated: 5 Keys to Help You Understand & Connect With Teens and Adults on the Spectrum.  She has been helping autistic teens and adults achieve their health, relationship and career goals for over 30 years. Her “AUntrepreneur” program helps young adults launch their own businesses and she hosts an online jewelry store where participants in her women’s group can sell their handcrafted items.  Toni also trains professionals on how to effectively evaluate and support teens and adults on the spectrum.  Toni comes from a  family of aspies and was diagnosed in her 40’s.  She has two manuscripts in the works, Fractal: A Memoir and The Autistic Healthcare Helper: A guide to Help You Partner with Your Healthcare Professional. 

For more about Toni: toniboucher.net 

 


Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.

For more about Haley, check out her website: haleymoss.net And look for her on Twitter: twitter.com/haleymossart For more about Dr. Butts, check out her website: cfiexperts.com

Have a question or story for us? E-mail us at SpectrumlySpeaking@gmail.com

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:  

HALEY MOSS (HM):  

Hello, and welcome to Spectrumly Speaking. I’m Hayley Moss, an author, Attorney, advocate, and I’m autistic. As usual, I’m joined here by the one and only my co-host…

DR LORI BUTTS (LB):  

You’re so great. I’m Dr. Lori Butts. I’m a psychologist and an attorney.

HM:  

I can’t help but secretly giggle inside every time you giggle when I introduce you.

LB:  

Makes you every time it’s a little different, but it’s always adorable. I love it.

HM:  

I just enjoy what we get to do this. Honestly, I feel like it’s been a while how it has been going.

LB:  

It has been a while. How are things? 

HM:  

Everything here is going good. It’s just been an exhausting time. So I don’t think we’ve talked about it this year, but we usually do is that it’s National Disability Employment Awareness Month during October. And that is usually a very busy time of year for me because everybody’s curious about how they could be better with the ADA and how they can be more inclusive. And it just keeps me kind of spinning around and doing something and it’s always a fun time though.

LB:  

That’s great. I see your postings on LinkedIn. And you look like the busiest person in America. So I it’s pretty impressive. All the stuff you’re doing.

HM:  

I do think I’m busy. But you don’t get to see that in my outside of LinkedIn or outside of events or outside of like consulting. I’m pretty chill in what I’m up to. Like, for me the greatest excitement in my personal life right now is I got a new Nintendo Switch. I got the new OLED one that’s like impossible to get. And it just finished downloading my entire library of games. And I’m like, Yes, I get to spend an entire weekend eventually just sitting there playing on this really, really fancy looking baby handheld TV. I’m so excited for it.

LB:  

I am so old, whatever you just said it sounded great. But I cannot relate what so ever.

HM:  

That means we need to get someone on here who is definitely a gamer. And I know a lot of autistic people love games.

LB:  

I do too. I know that they do. But I I’m again I’m old like I’m, you know, I can tell you about the games that I played as a kid and they wouldn’t mean anything to you.

HM:  

Hey, they keep releasing stuff. They keep RE-releasing stuff from when I was a kid. And that’s how I know that I’m slowly getting old. They’re starting to remake Pokemon games from when I was a teenager and young person. And I’m like, oh, and I know there’s a whole generation of people who are like, this is brand new and exciting. And I’m like, Yeah, I sunk 500 hours into this when I was 13.

LB:  

When they do that, and you start hearing remakes of songs from your childhood, that’s when you know, you’re starting to get old so you’re hitting it.

HM:  

or you hit the social media platform that you don’t know how to use — looking at you TikTok. 

LB:  

Exactly, exactly. 

HM:  

But I think instead of focusing on how we’re getting old, we should focus on more of the joy of what we have in store for today’s show. 

LB:  

I agree. 

HM:  

We do have a lot of joy. We actually have a guest again today. Are you excited? 

LB:  

I’m very excited.

HM:  

Me too. today. Our guest is Toni Boucher. And Toni is the author of autism translated five keys to help you understand and connect with teens and adults on the spectrum. She has been helping autistic teens and adults achieve their health, relationship and career goals for over 30 years. Her “AUntrepreneur” program helps young adults launch their own businesses and she hosts an online jewelry store where participants in her women’s group can sell their handcrafted items. Tony also trains professionals on how to effectively evaluate and support teens and adults on the spectrum. Toni comes from a family of athletes and was diagnosed in her 40s. She has two manuscripts in the work fractal, a memoir, and the autistic healthcare helper, a guide to help your partner with your health care professional. Welcome to the show!

TONI BOUCHER (TB):  

It’s great to be here. Thanks for having me.

HM:  

Thank you for joining us. And to get our conversation started. Would you like to share with us how you became involved in the autism community?

TB:  

Yeah, so you know, years ago, you were talking about age today. And back when I was in high school. I think when I was a, you know, Junior Senior I saw I came across some research about folks on the spectrum and people were saying a lot of things about autistic people and I just was really fascinated and drawn to them. But I didn’t buy the party line. To me I was feeling like there wasn’t something right about all the what we now know our myths today about autistic people. So I started volunteering and working with folks on the spectrum. I just really fell in love with them. I appreciated the honesty, the directness, the, you know, the way that I could interact with them. And, you know, here we are years later, and I’m, you know, so working with folks on the spectrum.

LB:  

Tell us about your, I don’t know if I’m saying it right: “AUntrepreneur” program.

TB:  

Yeah. So one of the, you know, the needs, that the folks that I work with Express is, of course, meaningful employment. And that is a real struggle for a lot of us folks on the spectrum is to find something that’s a good fit for us. And, you know, for a long time, I tried to fit into the nine to five, you know, work scenario. And it never really worked for me, I was constantly getting burned out, and I would do a really good job, but I had really poor boundaries for myself. So I overdid it, and then would end up in really, really severe autistic burnout for extensive periods of time where I couldn’t do anything. And I gradually, you know, developed acumen to my own entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial, you know, kind of tendencies and found that being an entrepreneur is a really good fit for a lot of us on the spectrum, you can, you know, you can take your passion, whatever that is, and monetize it, one of my obsessions is autism. So it becomes a socially acceptable thing for me to talk about what I’m passionate about. Because it’s what I do for my work. And I found that entrepreneurship works so well for me, because I, you know, I don’t have to do the nine to five, I can really be flexible with my schedule. And I can do things in a way that really accommodates my needs as a person on the spectrum. So I found that in working with clients, it was also a really good fit for a lot of the people that I worked for, it’s not, you know, it’s not for everybody. But for those people for whom it is a good fit. It’s really, it really can open doors and be a powerful way to make a contribution to the world.

HM:  

That is super cool. And I’m really glad to know that’s out there. And from your perspective, what are some of the ways professionals drop the ball in offering support to people on the spectrum?

TB:  

Well, I think that starts from the get go in the hiring process. So a lot of times an autistic candidate might be the most qualified, the best suited for a position. But because of the way that we interact in the world, we may not know how to sell ourselves as effectively as someone else. And so there’s a bias against us actually getting a job that we might be suited for in the first place. And one of the areas where I hear that a lot is particularly on online filters. So if companies are hiring and having people fill on online applications, those don’t work. Well, as a rule for those of us on the spectrum, they’ll ask you a question, and we will really maybe get stuck. If it’s a question that we pick apart and don’t feel like we can answer honestly or objectively or that may just really get stuck. Or if something in that system doesn’t work, right, we’re not able to move forward. And we may not know what we need to do to circumvent that to seek help, or to, you know, just move on to something else to get through the hiring process. So I see, you know, hiring is a big part of it. Hiring also is a very verbal endeavor. You know, you go in, you have an interview, and you talk talk talk. And of course, a lot of folks on the spectrum that’s not playing to a lot of our strengths, a lot of us are more visual, a lot of us are more kinesthetic. So maybe I can’t tell you what I can do on a computer. But if you pull that computer up, and let me show you what I can do, then that’s a better way to, you know, determine if I’m a good fit as an employee for you. So I think that’s a big piece of it is, you know, really setting up the interview and the selection process, so that it isn’t biased against folks who would, you know, really make great, you know, great candidates for the job. Once you get into the job. I think a lot of times employers have a really hard time knowing how to make simple accommodations. It’s things like fluorescent lights, which can really you know, cause people to have headaches or not be able to focus and you know, having an incandescent light or allowing a person to wear, you know, red lenses, those little things can be really helpful or allowing a person to work in a like a little separate section away from other people. Those There’s simple, inexpensive accommodations that can be done that a lot of times employers are reticent to do, but can really make a difference for, for a person. And then I think there’s the the work culture. You know, it’s, I remember when I was in, you know, working for the state, and it was like, Okay, we’ve got a Christmas party, and everybody’s supposed to show up, and there’s this pressure to do it, and I hate Christmas parties, I don’t want to show up with a bunch of people, my sensory, you know, overload goes, you know, wired in, then I have to sleep for a week to catch up after, you know, after doing something like that. So there’s a lot of pressure to be, quote, unquote, normal. And I think we really need to honor people’s differences, and see how those can really be harnessed. And, and, and, and make an improvement in the work culture and add value to what employers have. Because those differences really can be a great, a great thing if we allow them to if we change our mindset for it.

LB:  

So it’s interesting, because you also talk, you’re writing a book called The Autistic Healthcare Helper. And it seems that, that this kind of these ideas are might be going into the healthcare system, your perspective on the health care system. So can you can you tell us a bit about having an autistic person should have a partner with their healthcare providers? Because it sounds sounds like you’re kind of branching out from the business world to the healthcare world? And it sounds like these are kind of similar concepts, but I’m not 100% Sure. 

TB:  

You know, Lori, you’re absolutely right. It’s, it’s the same principles when it comes to, you know, see, you know, seeking healthcare in my approach, when I’m working with, you know, clients is, you know, filling those needs, where they’re needing support. And so I do focus a lot on employment, but I also focus a lot on making sure people have adequate health care, because that’s another really big gap in supports. And what I, you know, I found personally was that I would be helping people do their, you know, getting through the medical system, and I would go and do my own doctor’s appointments, and all the things I was recommending they would do, or I was doing to support them, I failed miserably in my own life, like I would show up to my doctor’s visit. And I would be in this room with the fluorescent lights, and it’s overwhelming, and, and I would leave and be like, Oh, I never even asked that question that I was, you know, that I was supposed to ask. And now I’m really, you know, I’m really worn out. So I developed this health care help helper. With the idea, I did that with this with a well known blogger, visual Vox. So we partnered on this. And it, it was designed as a step by step workbook to help people make sure they gather all the materials they have in advance, get their questions set up. And also just, you know, know what kinds of things to screen for as autistic people, we are at risk of a lot of secondary or CO, you know, co occurring conditions. And my experience, healthcare providers don’t know, to screen for, and, you know, seizures is a big one, like we know, statistically that folks on the spectrum are more likely to develop seizures. And I know very few doctors who actually screen for that even when we know that somebody is on the spectrum, we’re risk of vitamin and mineral deficiencies, that, you know, because we’re inside gaming all day, or all night. Getting vitamin D, sensory issues for this, you know, the sunlight, so we’re at risk of things just by, you know, by our lifestyles and how we’re wired, that I really think it’s important for the medical system to know but my goal is to put the power into the individual person’s hands so that they can advocate for, Hey, these are some things I’ve screened for. And so the healthcare helper actually has a list of screening tools that you can screen for all sorts of things that are likely, you know, to be a co occurring condition. So that that was kind of the birth of that particular you know, workbook, but but it is the same principles. It’s really about not, you know, the medical system, the employment system. We have a long ways to go for, you know, for folks in those systems to really understand how we’re wired differently and how accommodations can really be game changers in terms of you know, making sure we do have access to you know, good health care or, you know, employment where we can really, you know, make a contribution and and benefit the, you know, the workplace Right.

LB:  

I mean, we talk about these issues quite often on the show. And they’re simple shifts. And it’s just, I think it’s just being cognizant and educated about it as, as the professional or as an employer. Because it’s not it, none of these, none of the suggestions are overarchingly difficult. It’s just, it’s just awareness and education, it seems like that, you know, bridging that gap to, to be mindful of the environment or the accommodations, because the accommodations are helpful. And this is always my mantra, they’re helpful for everyone. Exactly. Like nobody likes fluorescent lights. Exactly. Exactly. In some some, it’s overwhelming. I’m not trying to minimize that, but, but even neurotypical people, like they’re just horrible.

TB:  

No, I think you’re absolutely right. I always say what’s good for an autistic person is good for everybody. Right? Person has an issue with something, I think society at large, needs to be asking the question, is this good for society at large? Because we’re frankly, the Canaries. You know,

LB:  

You’re absolutely right, you’re absolutely right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 

TB:  

The other thing about that is, I think, when we’re talking about making simple shifts, it’s really about shifting away from the medical model that, oh, there’s something really inherently wrong with these people, because they’re not acting quote, unquote, normal. And really shifting to the idea that there’s, there’s so many different ways that people can be wired. And when we honor how different people are wired, we make room for everybody’s potential to, you know, how to show up and for people to really be, you know, the people that are meant to be, and, and, you know, when we’re trying to put everybody in a box and make everybody comply and be quote, unquote, normal, we’re really, you know, really cheating society at large, out of the creativity, and the beauty and the wonder of, you know, the uniqueness that each person, regardless of how you’re wired, regardless of you know, whether you’re on the spectrum or have any other sort of neuro diverse wiring, you know, we’re cheating ourselves as a society out of that. So

LB:  

That’s a beautiful perspective. That’s absolutely, you know, 100%, right. You’re missing the creativity, the diversity, the, you know, the different thoughts and ideas that come out of different perspectives you’re under. Yeah, that’s a great way to put it.

HM:  

I’ve just been enjoying listening, and I couldn’t agree more. And I love that idea of how we’re the Canaries. I, I feel like I’ve learned a lot, and I know, our listeners surely will, too. How can we learn more about you and follow along with all the great stuff that you’re doing? 

TB:  

So probably the best way to reach me is that my website, toniboucher.net. And I love responding to people’s emails. I’m at Toni at toniboucher.net, you can reach out to me I’m not I don’t have a big social media presence. It’s something that’s very exhausting to me, it causes me anxiety. So I’ve just learned that’s not the best way to go for me. And if you wanted to get the book autism translated, you can go on Amazon, or you can go on my website to do that.

HM:  

We’re going to be talking about some of the benefits of entrepreneurship for folks who are autistic and how we can get started. And how do how do people get started, as you realize maybe traditional employment isn’t working? Or you have a really great idea? What do you think people should be thinking about?

TB:  

So for me, I really believe that you start with what you’re passionate about. You need to really focus on what you’re already interested in, or what your what already lights you up and makes you excited. And then you find a way to, you know, to monetize that from there, if you’re not passionate or excited about it, then really, you know, it’s I think it’s really hard to, you know, show up every day and be excited about doing your work. You’re just going to procrastinate, and it’s it’s not going to be fulfilling. So that that’s in my entrepreneurship ship program that I do, that’s how we start is we begin with, you know, figuring out what it is you’re passionate about. And then mindset. You know, I know it doesn’t matter if you’re autistic or not. Mindset is a big, big piece of being successful in in business. And we’ve got to really, really focus on any of those unhealthy thoughts or assumptions that, you know, prevent us from being successful.

LB:  

I had a year you just started, turned into an entrepreneur now. 

HM:  

I didn’t plan on it. But yes. But I think it’s also different when you’re selling services versus selling products. But that’s kind of my understanding, I think I know, or thinking about entrepreneurs, I think about folks who do make products more often than better selling services. I don’t know why. But that’s what happens in my little brain.

TB:  

Because like, I work with a lot of folks in my program who are selling services. And so I see it differently. I see it as entrepreneurship, you can sell your yourself your business, your services, just as much as if you have, you are the product. So in my mind, that’s how I look at it.

HM:  

I think that’s what isn’t connecting in my head is really Oh, yeah, you are the product. Big silly goose. Yes, because I do sell services. So I also do consulting I do I, I do a lot of events, I do all that stuff. And I I love it. I didn’t think this is what I was going to be doing. But I realized there was a demand that my background was unique. I thought it was something that was going to happen. And I think when you’re doing something else, and especially for me, because I was in a traditional law firm job before that, it was a Whoa, I was not expecting this to be where I was going to end up going. But I’m all in. And I think a lot of folks, at least from what I see in the people who talked to me are usually people who struggle with the legal of it all. So the contracts are what kind of business structure do I do. But I know that’s probably not as interesting to talk about, to be honest.

TB:  

I think it’s really important though, and I think you know, when you’re talking about making sure that an autistic person has success in employment, you’ve got to not make assumptions that they can figure the those details out on their own. You know, for example, in my program, when I train people, you know, we do the mindset stuff, but we also we look at areas where people might have a gap, like if I tell most people go down and get a business license at, you know, City Hall, maybe the typical neurotypical can just do that no trouble, but there might be a whole host of issues or barriers that would get in the way of an autistic person doing that. And so we’ve got to take a really close look at that and figure out what are those barriers, and the legal stuff, frankly, is necessary. And it’s terrifying to a lot of people. So a lot of times people just avoided or it prevents a person from moving forward on their business. Because you know how, you know a lot of us autistic folks are, you know, if we get stuck finding a way to circumvent or knowing when to ask for help, that can be really difficult for us to do. So a lot of times, we’ll just get stuck at that barrier. So it may not be exciting or glamorous, but it shows important.

HM:  

Yeah, and I think the one of those things in that not glamorous category is even figuring out a business structure. So do you go with a corporation? Do you do an LLC? Are you going to be a sole proprietor like all that stuff is really messy. And I know come tax time, it’s everybody’s least favorite thing in the world to deal with. But I look at it is I am autistic. I also went to law school, I took business law. And I still struggled with setting all that up when it was time to do it. Because I’d never felt like what my background was prepared me either. And there’s so many different things. You know, depending on where you live, that process might be different, too. So I don’t want to give advice on how you should structure your business per se. But I’m just saying there’s so much to be thinking about. And I think having a great support system, especially as a autistic entrepreneur is really important is having someone that you can trust. So whether that’s an accountant or you have anything else kind of in your way, or are on are in your corner, not in your way, why would why would supporters being exactly what you meant. I know but now like I see, that’s the thing is I think, as I talk and then I’m like wait, that sounds very, very wrong.

TB:  

But your pointis really so so true. That, you know, it’s, you know, it’s not something you do alone. I mean, there’s in our culture, we like to talk about how we’re so independent and we value independence, but we’re not independent. We we rely on whole foods or Publix to get our groceries to us. You know, we’re we are interdependent and it’s okay to seek support and seek help. And I think a lot of times those of us on the spectrum have a hard time you know, doing that and it’s it’s crucial for us to do that to be You know, to, you know, to have success in business, but in life in general too.

LB:  

And being a successful entrepreneur or running a business is going to do my reframe is difficult for people that are neurotypical. So, I mean, again, all of these suggestions are wonderful, and they’re wonderful suggestions and they can be tailored to anybody that’s, that’s getting involved in business because it’s, it’s, it’s an over because you have a passion for one area doesn’t mean that you know, or understand all the other, like boring intricacies of administering and, you know, doing all the other stuff. So, like, like, anybody who’s creative, has this thought and idea in this one area and in the process, they fall, tend to, you know, if they tend to fall apart, it’s because they’re not business minded. So it’s that, you know, you know, what your strengths are, your weaknesses are, you need to recognize to get the support for those weaknesses. I, you know, I went to law school, and I’m, I’m a lawyer, and I’m a psychologist, but, you know, I need a lot of help assistance in business management and running a business, because that’s not in my wheelhouse. That’s not anything I learned in school, you know. And so, we all, we all need these supports, and, and to know, to know who to access, because you don’t know all the answers, you don’t know what you’re missing. When you’re when you’re when you’re going into business, like you know what you want to do, but you don’t know what pieces you’re missing, especially the first time you’re involved in a business until you start talking to people. And then they say, No, you need to think about this. And this, and this, and these are things that usually aren’t on your radar, one of the good one, I mean, just in general, one of the good things that helped me was the Small Business Administration, website, I mean, it gets confusing, but they do have some good kind of flow sheets and step by step kind of processes to go through but but it’s also they tried to, to boil things down to help you kind of think about, about things like, you know, getting a tax ID or you know, things that are not on your radar where you have this passion for, for creating a small business or something like that. So anyway, that’s my diatribe on, on, I think, you know, my one thing I’ve said for years and years and years is lawyers and, and doctors need to have practical courses when they’re in grad school, especially physicians and psychologists, about businesses, because they’re, they, you know, they are entrepreneurs, even though they are healthcare providers, you know, if they open up their own practice, and nothing that we are taught in, you know, in those endeavors, teaches you how to, how to run a business smoothly. And so there’s a lot of very well educated people that had difficulties running a business and need a lot of help doing. it

TB:  

So true, so true.

LB:  

So sorry, I kind of took us off on a tangent there. But we all need help, you know, we all we all really need help and, and, and entrepreneurship I admire. I admire every entrepreneur, because it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of different tasks. You know, and so most of us are, are good at maybe one or two, but not ten.

TB:  

Absolutely. And entrepreneurship is a great, I think, microcosm or fractal of the world. So, you know, when you get into entrepreneurship, you really face your demons, you really face your insecurities, you really face all those things about yourself, they show up and they’re magnified. So it’s a great way to grow as a human being, I have to say, you’re forced to deal with your stuff this way. I just want to say we talked a lot about like the complexities and the intricacies of business as an entrepreneur and I think that’s very own 100% True, but for any of those listeners out there, who would be considering entrepreneurship, I don’t want you to be scared away from it. It’s you know, it is doable, and there are people out there to support you. And part of the process of you know, starting your own business is just jumping in and taking your baby steps and, and making mistakes along the way. I mean, you don’t have to be perfect, you start and you grow and you build and you improve on on what you have. So it’s not like you have to have this perfect, you know, scenario this perfect business. all set up, it’s just, you know, getting in there and starting it is really the way to go. So I really encourage anybody who’s interested in that to, you know, to give it a try, you don’t really have anything to lose by doing it.

LB:  

And I think Haley is a good example of that. She doesn’t even really, she didn’t even realize…

HM:  

I mean, I do, I just don’t identify strongly with it. I don’t know why it’s don’t really identify with the idea of entrepreneurship…

LB:  

But you started out with a passion and had an idea about what you wanted to do. And slowly you’ve built it, you’ve learned trial and error. And, and, and it’s still building and changing and evolving, but it’s, you know, that’s you took a leap of faith by leaving kind of a nine to five job and following your passion. And, and, and it is always evolving, and you’re doing great. It’s amazing. 

HM:  

I’m trying.

LB:  

Yeah, you’re doing great. 

HM:  

I’m gonna get there, it’ll be okay.

LB:  

You’re already there.

HM:  

I have faith in myself.

TB:  

It’s a process. It’s not like a destination. I think that’s the thing is you are you law you’re there. And, and, and it’s perfect, where you’re at right now. And you’re offering a service for people and people are grateful that you, you know, you’re there to provide that. And it will evolve over time. But you’re there now.

HM:  

That is true. I’m excited for it. And I think that realizing we’re continuing to grow is always really exciting.

LB:  

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you don’t know what’s what’s in front of you. But, you know, things will just evolve opportunities will, you know, as you put yourself out there and doing your, you know, your opportunities will come up that you didn’t anticipate, and you either say, Oh, this is great, let me go down that path, or, you know, it’s not really for me, and I keep on the path, but things will keep, you know, evolving for you,

TB:  

Lori, I think that’s so true. I mean, I got into my business precisely because there was a need. I mean, I was working with people of all ages. And I realized, gosh, these teens and adults who are present a typically they’re highly verbal, they’re really bright. Nobody’s helping these guys. It’s just like, Oh, you don’t need help, because you drive or you, you know, you have a or a business. So you can’t, you know, you don’t need help. And so that’s how I did what I did was I was, you know, responding to a need that our community had. And that’s the beauty of how what we do can evolve over time. And as long as you’re responding to a need, and doing it, you know, with care, it’s, you know, that’s, I think, what makes a successful, you know, business.

HM:  

I think it’s just really important when we do talk about entrepreneurship, and I don’t want people to be scared. I’m so glad that you mentioned that. It’s scary when you get started. But you eventually I think, find your footing in there people who are rooting for you. 

TB:  

It is scary. But that’s just the reality of so many things in life. Just because something scary doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. A lot of times the scary things are really the things that are worthwhile in life. Yeah, it’s terrifying to start your own business, it’s terrifying to you know, take those risks. And it’s worth it, you know, and and so, yeah, don’t, you know, don’t be shy of doing something just because it’s scary.

HM:  

I appreciate that. And I’m rooting for you. And I think that you’re rooting for all of us, too, which is really cool. Yeah, I think that’s a great note to end our discussion on too is that we are kind of rooting for each other. And we all we all want to be successful. And I think that it’s an important way to see things is that you do have folks who are going to be in your corner and support you if you are an autistic entrepreneur. So, with that in mind, be sure to check out different brains.org and check out their Twitter and Instagram @ DiffBrains. And don’t forget to look for them on Facebook. If you’re looking for me, you can find me at Haleymoss.com or you can find me on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram or if you’re really feeling saucy and are feeling in this workplace vein. You can also find me on LinkedIn. As for our absolutely incredible guest Toni Boucher please visit her online at toniboucher.net.

LB:  

I can be found at CFIexperts.com. Please be sure to subscribe and rate us on iTunes and don’t hesitate to send questions to spectrumlyspeaking@gmail.com. Let’s keep the conversation going.

Spectrumly Speaking is the podcast dedicated to women on the autism spectrum, produced by Different Brains®. Every other week, join our hosts Haley Moss (an autism self-advocate, attorney, artist, and author) and Dr. Lori Butts (a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist, and licensed attorney) as they discuss topics and news stories, share personal stories, and interview some of the most fascinating voices from the autism community.